[extropy-chat] Transhumanism and non-gender roles

[Adrian Tymes]

--- Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 03:48:42PM -0800, Adrian
> Tymes wrote:
> > Sorry, but MB is correct.  I specified "control
> over
> > oneself" - as in, the opportunity to not grow old
> and
> > deterioriate, if desired.  That is not illusiory
> in
> 
> We're talking very nicely in othogonal directions to
> each other, but it's no problem, as we occasionally
> do manage to connect sometimes.

Agreed.

> What I'm objecting is a belief
> of having a control over your own mind by equivalent
> of waving a dead chicken (Freud, Jung & Co). I have
> similiar scathing opinion of AI people who think
> philosophy and introspection will result in actual
> application leads. 

Ah.  Yes, I agree here, too.  (I think that philosophy
and introspection might possibly be able to aid the
application leads...but result in it by themselves?
No chance.)

> > You are correct in what you did say: people who
> > currently have withered bodies, or who believe
> that
> > the only path to old age is to wither, might not
> want
> > to live forever given what they think it must
> mean.
> 
> We've donned our Ministry of Propaganda hat here, 
> I presume.

I'm disclaiming what I say to make sure the exact
meaning gets across.  This can take the air of
propaganda at times, since propaganda can emphasize
things that are literally true - and yet a slight
misreading would result in something that is very
much desired, whether or not it is actually true.
Similar word patterns, different intents.

> > But that is not what we are discussing.  We are
> > discussing the ability to live forever in
> relatively
> 
> Forever is a bit misleading.

True, but close enough relative to the finite
lifespans of today.

> > (Frankly, it might be technically
> more
> > difficult to achieve immortality in a withered
> shell
> > than in a perpetually healthy shell, even if there
> > was not the desirability issue.  Were I to wither
> at
> > current rates, yet survive to 100, I might
> seriously
> > contemplate whether cryonic suspension might give
> me a
> > better chance of seeing the far future than
> continued
> > life.)
> 
> You of course realize that the vast majority of
> people
> in the industrialized countries die demented. Not
> much
> left to suspend there, alas.

Exactly.