[extropy-chat] Transhumanism: Teilhard de Chardin - Truth or Dare

[Samantha Atkins]

On Saturday 01 November 2003 16:48, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote:
> Samantha Atkins wrote:
> > An alternate view is that some parts of religion were an attempt largely
> > gone awry to influence us toward changes within our consciousness leading
> > to a less violent singularity and us even arriving there at all.   It is
> > not too far-fetched for me to consider that the future SI and posthuman
> > society runs countless sim experiments toward understanding how the
> > entire transition could have been a lot less painful or get to more
> > interesting conclusions more gracefully.    It would not surprise me if
> > we are in such a sim.
> >
> > Sometimes I think religions are remnants of a much more advanced past or
> > a brush with a much more advanced reality that have degenerated into
> > superstition and dogma to a large degree.    But I don't find
> > religion/spirituality utterly bankrupt as many do.
>
> Samantha, you have too damned little faith in humanity if you think that
> the tiny fragments of light to be found in religion *must* have their
> origin *somewhere*, *anywhere* outside the ordinary evolved human spirit.
>   Why must Buddha be the mouthpiece of a future civilization to be
> respected?  Why can't he be an ordinary human, absolutely no different
> from you, in the midst of squalor and ignorance, who decided *on his own
> and without any help* to be nice to people?  Isn't this truth more tragic
> and heroic and beautiful and, above all, true, than any bad science
> fiction that might be written about it?  Why must the explanation sound
> mystical to be accepted?

This is a strange response to what I wrote.   I certainly meant no disrespect 
nor do I have an lack of faith in humanity at all.  Rather I was speaking to 
those who act as if religion/sprituality is worthless (true lack of faith in 
humanity imho) or has nothing further to say now that we have science.  The 
best of religion and spirituality is far beyond "being nice to people".    
Bad science fiction?  I don't think so.  I think we are now in a position to 
make all of those deepest yearnings real.    But ask yourself what sorts of 
myths would occur in the remnants of humanity left behind by an outward bound 
Singularity.   You might get an interesting and provocative reexamination of 
a few religious memes.    

I do not grant that one view of how religion/spirituality came to be is 
privileged.   The truth and hypotheses about the truth are much richer and 
more fun.   

Why will visions for the future need a mystical wrapper to get accepted?  
Perhaps because the mystical stuff is inextricably part of the majority of 
human beings?   

- samantha