[extropy-chat] POSIT thread

[Brett Paatsch]

[Please note: Reposted on some reflection to put post into own
thread -  I will NOT repost 'spam-like' like this often - Brett]

Harvey wrote:

> Brett Paatsch wrote,
> > Harvey wrote:
> > > In fact, I believe almost all spam are frauds. ....
> \
> > This (my post) is off your topic Harvey hence the relabelled
> > subject.
> >
> > I have some half-baked (perhaps) notion that using the
> > word "belief" endorses it as a meme and that that is not
> > helpful to reasoning.
>
> Interesting idea.  I used the word to indicate my understanding of the
> problem, but with a concession that I have not exhaustively investigated
and
> proven this to myself.

I see.

> I think I really meant "I posit..." even though you list this below
> as not serving.

Ok. And yes, of course you are right. Posit. I should have had it in
the list of likely matches. Posit. Excellent word!

I almost feel some positing coming onto me now :-)

>...I posit this as a theory.
>..
> ... Scientifically speaking, this is a belief in my mind.

Yuk.

> It is not a religious belief as most people would take it.

Imagine that! And who would want to be taken for having a
religious belief when one was actually POSITING. Not me
for sure!

> Can you tell me more why you dislike the word "belief"?
> Do you see it as a faith-based conclusion?  In my usage, any
> "belief" is a stored statement of fact.

Sure. I see it as a veritable cancerous meme, the single worst
one-word cancerous meme I have *ever* encountered, because
it actually sounds strong and has a sneaky AIDS-like positive
prejorative that makes it very hard even for very bright people
to shake. And yet it can have the effect of making those even
very bright folks arguments sound no better than dumb arguments
or not argument at all when it is put up in opposition to them.

To the listener of a debate in parliament for instance who may
sometimes be only partly paying attention the word belief gets
credit (because it sounds strong) when it should get scorn
because it tags *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* reliable or
good.

If you were arguing for your life against a witch doctor in
a trial I would not want your most eloquent reasoned arguments
and POSITINGs being befuddled by your using the word belief
and the sleepy jurors hearing your accusers using another belief
based diatribe and then figuring what the heck I missed some of
the content of what was said but one 'belief' is pretty much as good
as another I may as well go with my gut, or toss a coin.

And Harvey who "believed" he should get freed stands the same
50/50 chance in front of the dopy audience or jury or judge as
the sneaky sometime malicious or mischievious rotter who announces
he "believes" as a true *believer* believes that Harvey should burn.

Harvey's eloquence in his defence is reduced by Harvey reinforcing
the believing (not reasoning meme). The meme may kill Harvey in
a really close contest when POSITING with all the simple dignity
and courage and eloquence the word carries might have saved him.

Words matter because juries and democracies can be full of
empowered fools, who do not unpack the words for their content.

The next time the deciding body wakes up from its slumbers and
hears beliefs on both side of an important question it can go right
on and be indiscriminant between shit and chocolate again.

I spend a fair amount of time watching politicians do their thing.
I hear the word belief a lot. I really, really do not like it. I see
folks getting believed to death even in the twenty first century.

This does not mean that I do not like any people who use the word
belief. I look at them a bit like they are carriers of a deadly meme
though. And I try and point it out but the slippery little meme
critter keeps getting under the guard.

I posit, hopefully, that posit might be used a bit more frequently
from now on. But I wish I could be more confident. It is dashed
hard to kill a cancerous word meme when it is refined right down
to a single positively prejorative word.

But maybe, just maybe one can label the rotten cancerous word meme.

Actually I sort of hope that one day all my friends will be so thoroughly
innoculated against using the cancerous meme word that I will be able to
tell fools from non-fools simply by their use of that one word. Then
maybe I'll pick another word ;-)

Regards,
Brett

[Having attempted just one of a million smites on a filthy rotten word
meme - and wondering if next time he may be able to 'save' or help
good Harvey with a booster shot of - do you perchance mean 'posit'?

Phew..

Now Samantha will be along Positing *belief in positing* in a moment
and I will quietly explode
        ]