[extropy-chat] HISTORY: Solved & Unsolved Riddles

[John K Clark]

<kevinfreels at hotmail.com> Wrote:

 > As far as walking upright as well as we can,
 > I'm not so sure. There appears  to be some
 > debate as to just how well she could walk upright.

In rocks that were slightly older than Lucy bipedal footprints were found,
something was walking upright back then.

 >Although Lucy's brain size was only slightly larger
 >than that of a chimps (about 15 ml I think)

Lucy's brain was about 400 cc, Homo Habilis made some very simple tools
about a million years later but his brain was nearly twice as bid at 750cc.
The average modern human brain is about 1400 cc.

 >the one thing we don't  know is how it was wired.

That's true and we'll never know for sure because IQ doesn't fossilize,
there are only 2 ways we can make an educated guess:

1) Brain size.
2) Culture, primarily tool making.

Lucy does not shine in either area.

 >we have very few skeletons from this period.
 >Lucy herself was only 70% complete.

70% is not bad especially if you assume bilateral symmetry. About a year
after Lucy was found The First Family was discovered, about 10 or 12
individuals.

  John K Clark    jonkc at att.net










> As far as walking upright as well as we can, I'm not so sure. There
appears
> to be some debate as to just how well she could walk upright.

>
> Brain sizes in primates tend to overlap, such as they do in humans with no
> obvious distinction shown in intelligence. H. Nandertalensis had a brain
> roughly 17% larger than ours, but there I have seen no one claim that they
> were smarter than H. Sapiens.


Although Lucy's brain size was only slightly
> larger than that of a chimps (about 15 ml I think) the one thing we don;t
> know is how it was wired. She may have been a bit smarter than the average
> chimp.
>
> One thing I need to add here is that we have very few skeletons from from
> this period. Lucy herself was only 70% complete. It could be that she is
> normal of her species. Or it could be as if someone from the future found
a
> skeleton of a midget and used that to determine that we all had the same
> build. (Midgets pose another topic entirely.....no doubt they are human,
but
> if we found midget pre-hominid skeletons, would we call them a seperate
> species?) I don;t find this as liklely, but it is possible.
>
> > than that of a chimp and it would be more than a million years before
even
> > the simplest tools show up in the fossil record,
>
> When I was speaking of tools, I wasn't referring to constructed and
altered
> tools such as stone tools. Chimps use twigs as simple tools to retrieve
> termites from nests and some in the region of Liberia use stones to break
> open nuts. With just a slight turn of the usage, sticks and rocks could
> become sufficient weapons, even if it was a matter of throwing rocks to
run
> a potential predator off. None of these would show as tools in the fossil
> record.
>
>  >nor is there any evidence
> > that she engaged in hunting, if she did it must have been for something
> like
> > mice. I think Lucy was a very long way from being top predator, when she
> > stood up she was just telling those who were what's on the menu.
>
> I will agree that Lucy was most likely vegetarian, and I was wrong to put
> emphasis on the predator aspect. To be honest, I was trying to do three
> things at once and was a bit distracted. My overall point, which I think
was
> missed once I read my own post, was that given some simple naturally
> existing rock or wood tools, primitive communication, and/or an awareness
of
> the environment that even chimps today have, the group would have been
able
> to protect and or escape easier if they could see trouble coming and
> communicate that to the rest of the group. It is simply my opinion that
Lucy
> and her bunch were probably smarter than many researchers give them credit
> for, and that this increased intelligence was what turned bipedalism into
an
> asset instead of an expense.
>
> n K Clark     jonkc at att.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
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