[extropy-chat] HISTORY: Solved & Unsolved Riddles

[kevinfreels at hotmail.com]

>Does it bother you enough to affect a change in your behavior
>(in your expressions) so that you will not sound like them?

Actually, I have been trying to remove it from my vocabulary since the time
I saw this debate come up several months ago. I happen to agree with you. I
was sloppy when I wrote that. Habits are difficult to change. It is a word
that has been used by myself and those around me for a very long time. When
you are surrounded by people who don't choose their words carefully, it is
easy to do the same. While I don't think that the word needs to be removed
entirely, it does need to be used only when appropriate. The word itself is
not entirely bad, but using it does place thinking into the same catagory as
faith based believing.

Cheers.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Paatsch" <bpaatsch at bigpond.net.au>
To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 2:46 AM
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] HISTORY: Solved & Unsolved Riddles


> Kevin wrote:
>
> > I don't think that you are arguing because of an ego.
>
> Good.
>
> > The word "believe" has a variety of meanings:
> > (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=believe)
> >
> > To accept as true or real: "Do you believe the news stories? "
>         ^^^^^
> So- With the additional context:  "Do you accept the news stories?"
> Covers this use.
>
> > To credit with veracity: "I believe you. "
>
> The above is a very sloppy and ambiguous statement but:
> "I accept what you say" or "I trust you" would seem to serve.
> Or "I trust you and I accept what you say"
> Believe *can* be replaced with synonymns.
>
> > To expect or suppose; think: "I believe they will arrive shortly. "
>
> So a synonym - "I think they will arrive shortly"
>
> => No endorsing of the believe meme is necessary. There are no
> barriers here (in the above examples) to removing the word from
> ones language and then one's inner dialog.
>
> And to do so has advantages in that the believe meme is not
> propagated if it is not used.
>
> >
> > v. intr.
> > To have firm faith, especially religious faith.
>
> Who'd want to endorse this meme that didn't have faith?
>
> > To have faith, confidence, or trust: I believe in your ability to
> > solve the  problem.
>
> So substitute confidence or trust in expression and internal
> dialog and no loss of ability to communicate or to map the
> concepts in one's head results but a propensity to use the
> believe word and to propagate it is reduced.
>
> > To have confidence in the truth or value of something: We
> believe
>
> affirm
>
> > in free  speech. To have an opinion; think: They have
> > already left, I believe.
>
>                         think
> >
> > So in some cases, it is used as a justification of something
> > taken as fact without supporting evidence. In others, it is
> > expectation or supposition which both would be based in
> > some fact. To think.
>
> But in none of these cases is it *necessary* or irreplaceable
> both in expression and in internal dialog. So the option to
> not use it is there.
>
> >
> > What bothers me is when people use its faith based version
> > while claiming otherwise. I agree with you about public policy
> >  being made by uninformed faith based beliefs.
>
> Does it bother you enough to affect a change in your behavior
> (in your expressions) so that you will not sound like them?
>
> > As far as ego goes, don't we all have one?
>
> I think so.
>
> Kevin if you agree that you can do without the believe word
> and you agree that the believe word is harmful in some contexts
> why not just start talking and thinking without using it? Where
> is the downside of that course? - I can't see any. I can see
> an upside of not using the believe word - that is you won't
> propagate the meme of believing. There will be one less
> person spreading the meme of believing around. It will also
> make it easier for you to point out to others the nature of the
> believing meme.
>
> Brett
>
> > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo/extropy-chat
>
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