[extropy-chat] Re: Human Evolution

[kevinfreels at hotmail.com]

> Are you guys actually debating whether humans can mate with chimps and
have
> live cross-species children?  I really question the level of scientific
> knowledge on this list.  I assume that all your other biological
predictions
> are equally scientific....

No, that's not the issue.
 There is a lot of debate as to whether or not H. neanderthalensis was
capable of breeding with H. sapiens. What about H. habilis and A africanus?
H. heidelbergensis and H. erectus? H. erectus and H. neanderthalensis? H.
sapiens and H. erectus, etc?

I am looking for similarities in modern primate species for examples. Take
the bonobo and chimpanzee for instance. They are seperated genetically by
just under 2 million years. Morphologically they are very similar, but with
a 2 my seperation, can they crossbreed?
Also, chimpanzees are more similar to humans genetically than they are to
other apes. Are they able to crossbreed with any other apes that are less
similar genetically although they can't breed with humans? Is the orang-utan
capable of crossbreeding with anything in the Homininae sub-family even
though the Ponginae sub-family has been genetically seperated by 11-13
million years? If so, what does this mean for the possibility of a genetic
classification system in place of the Linnaean system? Do either a genetic
or morphological classification system help us to determine which fossilized
remains represent distinct species? Is there any true line of descent from
A. africanus to us, or was the last 5 million years a giant orgy with
constant crossbreeding throwing out all sorts of weird combinations of
modern and archaic features that don;t represent real distinct species at
all?

Felis bengalensis (Asian leopard cat) can breed with a domestic cat although
the domestic cat has one more pair of chromosomes. The male offspring are
sterile, but mating a female of that generation with another male domestic
creates what is called the Bengal. A CFC registered domestic cat. Are there
similar occurances in the primate world, or are primates somehow excluded
from this ability?

This is what I am after. It is the information I am trying to find out
before I make a "biological prediction" which you are so quick to assume as
unscientific. This may be something that someone else has worked out long
ago and has all the answers to. Maybe it is you. If you have the answers
please provide them. If this line of questioning is simply stupid, maybe you
should tell that to all the researchers that are debating whether or not H.
erectus was assimilated into extiction, or if they were simply outcompeted.

I don't pretend to have a wealth of scientific knowledge. I am acquiring
this knowledge. I am not a genius like Eli. I do not have "CISSP, CISA,
CISM, IAM, IBMCP, GSEC
Certified IS Security Pro, Certified IS Auditor, Certified InfoSec Manager,
NSA Certified Assessor, IBM Certified Consultant, SANS Certified GIAC
" behind my name. I am simply a fellow human being with a thirst for
knowledge, and a mind which is quite capable of unique perspectives and
drawing accurate conclusions from limited information. I think that I have
excellent instincts and as I continue to increase my scientific knowledge, I
hope to become more valuable to the scientific community and one day
contribute some knowledge in return for the knowledge that I gained.

Finally, what is your reason for questioning the level of scientific
knowledge on this list? Does it really matter? How many scientific
breakthroughs have come from patent clerks or med school drop-outs? How many
of these breakthroughs were laughed at and scorned because their ideas did
not fit the "known" science of the day? What about the New York Times
article about Robert Goddard: "Professor Goddard ... does not know the
relation of action to reaction ... he only seems to lack the knowledge
ladled out daily in our high schools" [New York Times, January 13, 1920]

Being open-minded does not mean that you have to accept it if someone says
"The Earth is flat" and if I ever make a statement so obviously stupid, I'll
accept the criticism and go back to the drawing board. If you can find any
of my questions or statements to be so obviously stupid, let me know.
Questioning the level of scientific knowledge on this list simply because
you are only half-ass reading this thread is a long way from this.