[extropy-chat] Re: [wta-talk] [wta-politics] Max More's article on Democracy and Transhumanism

[Max More]

Mark,

I pulled your post up from the archives. Some brief comments:


"I disagree if the thesis is that transhumanism is logically incompatible
with democracy."

I did not make that claim. So we still do not disagree. I am puzzled at why 
you thought such an extremely strong claim could represent what I wrote. 
What I asked was: "Should they [transhumanists] be committed to and defined 
by democracy?"

Further, your suggested interpretation is at odds with something else that 
I wrote in that piece: "A transhumanist organization should no more 
describe its core commitments as "democratic" than it should describe 
itself as an "Internet organization" when in practice and in aspiration the 
organization interacts by means of any effective medium of communication."


"I am unpersuaded if the thesis is that transhumanists ought not be democrats."

Closer, but still not what I said. I was suggesting that *identifying* 
transhumanism with democracy is a mistake, especially many of the 
particular forms of democracy that have existed so far.


Regarding this point:
"If this criticism is successful it seems then it must be directed at
democratic organizations that make the identification between democracy and
transhumanism eternal. It does not seem to speak to those who for pragmatic
reasons make this identification because of the usual reasons of
Realpoliticks."

I have no objection to working with current democratic means to promote the 
values of transhumanism. On the contrary, I think that is essential since 
we have to work with what is even as we aim to improve what is.

What *does* bother me is socialists like James Hughes and Dale Carrico who 
use the term "democratic transhumanism" and talk about "cyborg democracy". 
Their use of the term "democracy" appears to me to be a cover for 
socialism. This disturbs me in large part because socialism has always been 
a disastrous goal and method and extending it to transhumanist issues would 
probably be even worse.

That's the main issue, as far as I'm concerned.

A secondary issue is the use of the term "democratic transhumanism" to 
describe an organization. I didn't go into that in my quickly-written piece 
at all. I can't go into that now either, except to say that I see wide 
participation as more important than "democracy" in private organizations. 
Some people are using the two ideas as identical. I find that obfuscating. 
Those people then critique what I said on that assumption, which utterly 
distorts my meaning. I've written more than enough in favor of open 
societies not to have to restate the point.

Although some of your comments do not capture what I said, Mark, I 
appreciate the evenness of your tone. That has been lacking in most of the 
responses.

Onward!

Max



_______________________________________________________
Max More, Ph.D.
max at maxmore.com or more at extropy.org
http://www.maxmore.com
Strategic Philosopher
Chairman, Extropy Institute. http://www.extropy.org <more at extropy.org>
_______________________________________________________