[extropy-chat] electing ideas [wasRe:Fahrenheit911-objectivereview?]

[Brian Lee]

I don't know why it's shocking to realize that the US isn't some massive 
force for good in the world.

The US has a main concern: maintaining and increasing its power (re: 
hegemony). The US bailed out of Liberia when the USSR fell apart because 
Liberia ceased to be important.

That's the same reason why dictators with billions are more likely to get 
liberated than penniless dictators.

Seems pretty straightforward to me. There's no mandate that USians are 
compassionate folks who want to help the world. In fact, I've seen some 
polls that basically given the choice between helping the world or helping 
local USians, local charity wins out.

Spider Man's Uncle Ben said "With great power comes great responsibility." 
Until America accepts this and begins to act on it, then there will be 
terrible things happening in the world that will not be changed by the US.

BAL

>From: "Kevin Freels" <megaquark at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] electing ideas 
>[wasRe:Fahrenheit911-objectivereview?]
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:36:19 -0500
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Originating-IP: [67.38.179.115]
>X-Originating-Email: [megaquark at hotmail.com]
>X-Sender: megaquark at hotmail.com
>Received: from mc2-f13.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.20]) by mc2-s1.hotmail.com 
>with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:27:49 -0700
>Received: from tick.javien.com ([209.115.169.3]) by mc2-f13.hotmail.com 
>with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:27:48 -0700
>Received: from tick.javien.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by 
>tick.javien.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i7G1II016526;Sun, 15 Aug 2004 
>19:18:18 -0600
>Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.86])by 
>tick.javien.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i7G1IF016517for 
><extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>; Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:18:15 -0600
>Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft 
>SMTPSVC;Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:18:14 -0700
>Received: from 67.38.179.115 by bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV;Mon, 
>16 Aug 2004 01:18:14 +0000
>X-Message-Info: U2wzkPk8/jZ27yo+I0QrGhYRMefS/hizIsHsJLIJLYo=
>References: 
><!~!AAAAANZdqIhpSZdLswZV2YI7VP0Eyi0A at indco.net><002801c4830c$4d26ef60$1e47bacc at preferrei3lj79>
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
>X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441
>Message-ID: <BAY9-DAV29c0D543Tuy0005c2cd at hotmail.com>
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Aug 2004 01:18:14.0195 
>(UTC)FILETIME=[E7165030:01C4832E]
>X-BeenThere: extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4
>Precedence: list
>List-Id: ExI chat list <extropy-chat.lists.extropy.org>
>List-Unsubscribe: 
><http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo/extropy-chat>,<mailto:extropy-chat-request at lists.extropy.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>List-Archive: <http://www.lucifer.com/pipermail/extropy-chat>
>List-Post: <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>List-Help: <mailto:extropy-chat-request at lists.extropy.org?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe: 
><http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo/extropy-chat>,<mailto:extropy-chat-request at lists.extropy.org?subject=subscribe>
>Errors-To: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
>Return-Path: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
>
>Let's not forget our FAILURE to intervene in Liberia last year when both
>parties were looking forward to our presence. The entire issue was created
>by the way we just packed up and left Liberia after the Soviet Union
>crumbled. Now they are looking to stabilize and are looking for $14million
>to get their electric back on in Monrovia and no one seems to care...
>Liberia just isn;t big enough news to justify messing with, so we ignore 
>it.
>
>I'm willing to go out on a limb here though. I think the terrible foreign
>policy is directly caused by the general public's lack of knowledge about
>the world. The government only reacts to things they think will get them
>re-elected and the voters only care about the things that  the news media
>tell them to care about.  If the people had a clue and gave a shit, I think
>our entire foreign policy would change and we wouldn;t have so many people
>that hate us.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Pat Fallon" <pfallon at ptd.net>
>To: <dwish at indco.net>; "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 4:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] electing ideas [was
>Re:Fahrenheit911-objectivereview?]
>
>
> > > We are facing a group of Muslim men ages 18-25 that have been
> > > taught to hate America since they were born.
> >
> >
> > IMHO, our interventionist foreign policy hasn't helped any...
> >
> > Take Iran, for instance...
> > The CIA played a large role in overthrowing the Prime Minister of Iran
> > and replaced him with the Shah whose dictatorship and secret police
> > lasted almost 20 years until he was driven from office...
> >
> > when the revolution came, they didn't storm the Zwiss Embasy,
> > they stormed the American Embassy because they hated us...
> > the American CIA had replaced their Prime Minister with a dictator...
> >
> > we create, prop up, discard, and play tyrants off of one another...
> > eventually that shit will catch up to you as it did in Iran...
> >
> > our interventionist foreign policy breeds hatred,
> > it destroys our freedoms here in the US...
> > it will bleed us dry...
> >
> > >The issue truly rests in that if we tuck tail and run out of Iraq
> > >that we lose far more than the men we have lost already.
> >
> > sounds a little deja-viet-namish....
> > the sooner we admit a mistake and withdraw, the better...
> >
> > > Our country will be a target for anyone that needs their
> > > agenda passed to just bomb a church or building and we
> > > will give them what they want to not make anyone mad.
> >
> > our troops will certainly continue to be a target if we keep them in
>Iraq...
> >
> > > Appeasement never works.
> >
> > Refraining from disasterous foreign interventionism is not 
>"appeasement."
> >
> > Self defense, YES...
> > installing dictators, proping up kings and princes to secure oil
>franchises,
> > NO.
> > taxing us to give trillions to foreign countries...no
> > [privatize foreign aid, stop forcing Americans to contribute]
> >
> > Pat Fallon
> > pfallon at ptd.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > extropy-chat mailing list
> > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo/extropy-chat
> >
>_______________________________________________
>extropy-chat mailing list
>extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo/extropy-chat