[extropy-chat] John Wright finds God

[Rafal Smigrodzki]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Samantha Atkins" <sjatkins at gmail.com>
To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] John Wright finds God


> Well, the "claim" is about what these rather extraordinary yet
> widespread experiences mean.  What it means largely falls into two
> camps.  One camp says that the experience means that reality is not
> like we normally assume it to be and we ourselves are quite different
> than what we normally believe to be the case.   The other camp says
> that these experiences say little about what really is true beyond the
> obvious fact that human beings can have such experiences.
>
> Which is the more extraordinary interpretration?  It looks to me like
> it is the first.

### Indeed, Samantha, I agree with you that the latter interpretation is 
less extraordinary: It requires fewer assumptions to be made about available 
sensory evidence.

For me, the observation of human brains obviously malfunctioning, and the 
following behaviors, is an almost daily experience - in the clinic I see 
patients with e.g. visual hallucinations due to dopaminergic medication, or 
with olfactory hallucinations due to partial seizures, or with delusions in 
Lewy body dementia. It is a simple matter of fact to say that human brains 
malfunction frequently, and in many cases without the patients themselves 
being aware of the malfunction.

I make only the probabilistic assumptions necessary to provide an 
explanatory and predictive framework for my daily sensory and noumenal 
experience. This forces me to believe in the existence of e.g. electrons, 
niobium, Corvettes, toilet paper, flagella, and all the myriad of physical 
objects and their relationships that constitute my (and other humans') 
direct and inferred experience - this, and nothing more. Observation of 
phosphenes, THC-evoked illusions, or Purkinje lights within my own visual 
system convinces me that my noumenal existence is an aspect of the physical 
object I may see in the mirror, and no further assumptions about the world 
are then needed to interpret other noumena as aspects of a physical reality.

Therefore, given the regularities in malfunctioning of human brains in 
general, if confronted with an experience of seeing double, I would first 
try to trouble-shoot my cranial nerves, and upon seeing rows of little 
marching men in the corners of the room I would consider the Charles Bonnet 
syndrome rather than sprites. This syndrome is defined by presence of visual 
hallucinations without impairment of reality testing, with the patient fully 
aware of the absence of external referents to his experiences - which 
appears to be possible as long as the hallucinations do not assume a form 
with high emotional impact and the remaining parts of the nervous system 
perform their reality-testing routines without malfunction. Of course, if I 
had William James' "will to believe", if I was an atheist eager, rather than 
loath to embrace a spirit, this detached attitude would be more difficult to 
maintain - but then I would be a different person altogether, rather than 
being just me skeptically waving away ghosts flitting around in the corners.

So, I interpret reports of certain experiences as most likely devoid of the 
significance that others may attach to them, and not even having such 
experiences myself would be enough to change this attitude. Short of a 
physical rewrite of my prefrontal cortex, only specific prophecies (be it 
regarding the Millenium, or the stock market) coming true could convince me 
otherwise.

Rafal

PS. Ghostlike figures crowding in dark corners are really quite common in 
older people, so to quote Damien, "It may happen to you".


>
> - samantha
>
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:34:17 -0600, john-c-wright at sff.net
> <john-c-wright at sff.net> wrote:
>> BillK writes:
>>
>> > John Wright is speaking as though his religious experience
>> was something unusual. It isn't. Millions of people have had similar
>> experiences and many also *know* the meaning of life.
>> More than half of all adult Americans (and UK adults also) will report
>> having had some kind of religious experience. Religious experience is
>> common to humanity worldwide, regardless of religious persuasion. Even
>> atheists have transcendental events in their lives. It is a
>> fundamental part of how the human brain is structured.
>>
>> Will all due respect, you misquote me. I did not say my experience was 
>> unique.
>> Far from it. I merely opine that the most logical explanation to a type 
>> of
>> perception that an overwhelming majority of people have had is not 
>> necessary the
>> conclusion that the overwhelming majority of people are mistaken. It 
>> could be
>> that that are: but the burden of proof surely lies on the party making 
>> the more
>> extraordinary claim.
>>
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