[extropy-chat] Assisted Suicide

Tue Dec 14 21:02:28 UTC 2004

If done to a terminally ill person, with specific legal instructions of 
how to proceed it would be
Assisted Suicide.

Question....how  would a life insurance policy pay out differently if 
the patient "died" Vs was assisted in the termination of a
terminal condition during what was medically considered the last 90 days 
of natural life plus a "do not resusitation order".

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [extropy-chat] Resuscitation: and Armchair Cryonicists
Date: 	Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:08:13 -0800
From: 	Hara Ra <harara at sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: 	ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
To: 	Kevin Freels <cmcmortgage at sbcglobal.net>, ExI chat list 
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
References: 	<41BDA886.6080509 at sasktel.net> 
<01c401c4e141$e056b840$c3ebfb44 at kevin> 
<6.0.3.0.1.20041213193455.029140f0 at pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> 
<41BE6786.2070009 at sasktel.net> <20041214094246.GT9221 at leitl.org> 
<008a01c4e200$8c5fc320$c3ebfb44 at kevin>

To posts by Eugen and Kevin.

For Kevin:

	My (very limited) information on ischemia is that the Krebs cycle is 
vulnerable to the loss of oxygen. (The machinery for this cycle is passed 
via the egg, so evolution in mammalia long ago lost any protection if it 
was there.) When O2 is returned to the cell, the Krebs cycle has failed, 
and some steps lack the needed intermediate products, the result is a toxic 
accumulation of reactive radicals and serious irreparable damage.

	I don't know about what the arteries do, but failure of their Krebs cycle 
may well do as you describe.

For Eugen:

	Thanks for taking my point and clarifying it. If you read my sig file, I 
don't think I am an "Armchair cryonicist". Please correct me if you think 
so, and explain why.

For Both:

	If the law permitted touching the patienr prior to announcement of death 
(not likely in the USA for a very long time), then, in a clinic, 1) give 
patient general anesthesia 2) cannulate femorals 3) pump in intermediate 
cooldown fluid (plasma blood extender) with high oxygenation. As the body 
temp cools, the heart stops at about 50 deg F. Cooldown to 0 deg C can be 
done in about 10 minutes, without subjecting the patient to ischemia.

	But, folks, this is legally MURDER, and dat's how it is in the good ole 
USA. :(

PS We currently do no longer use the Thumper, which is an obscene bastard 
of equipment fully capable of major injury to both patient and rescue team. 
Respiratory support is no longer in the protocol, because basically all 
patients are over the 4 minute limit, and restoring O2 is a bad idea. We 
use an Ambi product, a suction cup with handles, to maintain circulation 
for the 3-5 minutes it takes to circulate the medicines (a proprietary 
cocktail of anticoaguants, clot busters and other stuff)
==================================
=   Hara Ra (aka Gregory Yob)    =
=     harara at sbcglobal.net       =
=   Alcor North Cryomanagement   =
=   Alcor Advisor to Board       =
=       831 429 8637             =
==================================

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