[extropy-chat] Re: Damien grants psi evidence

[Brett Paatsch]

John K Clark wrote:

> "Damien Broderick" <thespike at satx.rr.com> Wrote:
>
>>  http://anson.ucdavis.edu/~utts/
>
> I went to the page you cited with the intention on reading the entire 
> thing
> but in the end I just glanced at it. I confess I totally lost interest 
> when
> I read the following:
>
> "There is little benefit to continuing experiments designed to offer 
> proof,
> since there is little more to be offered to anyone who does not accept the
> current collection of data."

I read the same comment and had a similar reaction but I kept reading
because Damien had offered it as a compelling example AND because
I wanted to see if I could fault her method.

> In other words Jessica Utts thinks the proof that this phenomena actually
> exists is as good as it's ever going to get and in her opinion it's good
> enough.

> In my wildest dreams I can't imagine Faraday saying that about
> electromagnetism 150 years ago, or a scientist today at CERN saying the 
> same thing about a theory of particle physics that was far less radical 
> than ESP. When I read those words my baloney detector went
> off big time!

Ultimately your baloney detector may be still be right but only by luck,
on this occassion as you didn't read far enough.  I read Utts's report,
the response to it by Hyman which seemed to be from a real sKeptic,
her response to that, and part of another report by May I think.

For my part I am still sceptical that psi phenomena exists but on the
basis of what I read I wouldn't class Utts as either a crank or a fool.

What was missing for me was more detail about the psi phenomena
itself. Yet the size of the effects reported (small), and the nature of the
way in which they were reported, (with apparently good scientific
method and a seemingly very capable understanding of statistics)
didn't offer me reason enough to need to push further immediately.

When, if, Damien, or Utts, offers some further evidence, I'd be
ready to take a look at that now more confident that not everyone
that is operating in the space is merely a believer. I would still
suspect, as Damien seems to, that most that are in that area are
cranks and fools.

Brett Paatsch