[extropy-chat] Fw: Deconstruction deconstructed....

[Harvey Newstrom]

Mike Lorrey wrote,
> --- David Lubkin <extropy at unreasonable.com> wrote:
> > At 09:19 PM 1/10/2004 -0500, Harvey Newstrom wrote:
> > >I would question the authors racist motives for saying things like
> > > "you get points for being French", and his homophobia of selecting
> > > homophobia as a topic to make fun of
> > 
> > I don't see either of these. But I confess to blind spots in my 
> > competency at discerning subtext; you may well have spotted 
> > motives or attitudes I missed.
> 
> Methinks that Harvey is subconciously deconstructing the author.

Actually it was quite conscious.  David cut off the part where I said so.  I
said that if I were to deconstruct the author (the way he was deconstructing
other people) this is what I could come up with.

David Lubkin wrote,
> (manu)script as their own that was actually written by a literary great
> job requirements [...] aren't actually needed for the job.
> They exaggerate their experience to get the job, 
> believing they know better than the HR department or hiring manager.
> Reporters go undercover and use hidden cameras for exposes, 
> submitting fraudulent employment applications
> violating the confidentiality agreements they signed
> Police go undercover as well, but also set up 'sting' operations.
> Policy advocates and politicians lie or distort (or withhold) evidence
> 
> Which of these are violations of the NCP?  Is "preemptive fraud" any 
> different than preemptive force?

I think all of them are an initiation of force/fraud.  People who are really
trying to help other people generally let them know what they are doing.
The only reason such people hide their motives is that they do have a hidden
agenda, and their "beneficiaries" don't want their so-called help.

I still stand by my previous statement, and the above makes it even more
clear.  If I hired an engineer, and he was doing fraudulent work and hoaxes
instead of the work I was paying him to do, I would fire him.

Anders Sandberg wrote,
> Unlike Harvey I think that hoaxes like Sokal's are not just 
> fun, but also healthy. There have been many others like him, 
> such as various computer science papers generated with Markov 
> chains sent to conferences and ending up in proceedings, and 
> of course the Bogdanoff brothers
> (http://www.lns.cornell.edu/spr/2002-10/msg0045263.html) 
> apparently getting a Ph.D. and publishing peer reviewed 
> papers with nonsense theoretical physics. This a good thing, 
> because the laughter and derision afterwards help point out 
> flaws in the peer review system or other forms of quality 
> control.

Laughter and derision are not helpful in helping someone see the error of
their ways.  These are not helpful endeavors, nor are they desired by the
parties supposedly being helped.  It could be done in a professional manner
if someone really wanted to help someone else.  There is nothing healthy or
helpful about laughing at or deriding someone who needs help.

Nobody should be "helping" anybody else who clearly does not want their
help.  Even if these people have "helpful" motives, there are other methods
that can be used to improved processes that are not as damaging.  You don't
have to ridicule, embarrass and hurt an organization to improve their
processes.  You do not have to spread false information to seek the truth.
You don't have to secretly break into a computer to fix it.  (You do not
have to start a war to avoid a war.)  Etc....

There are more direct and less damaging methods for demonstrating and fixing
these things.  Even the fact that someone can push a bad paper through
doesn't prove that previously bad papers have gotten through.  A critique of
real papers would be more useful than a hoax paper.  Seriously, has the
author of this hoax been invited onto the review boards and process
committees for any of the organizations he defrauded?  If not, I rest my
case.

-- 
Harvey Newstrom, CISSP, CISA, CISM, IAM, IBMCP, GSEC
Certified IS Security Pro, Certified IS Auditor, Certified InfoSec Manager,
NSA Certified Assessor, IBM Certified Consultant, SANS Certified GIAC
<HarveyNewstrom.com> <Newstaff.com>