[extropy-chat] i-language again

[Spike]

> Harvey Newstrom
> 
> Spike wrote,
> > > Example, spike.  (1) picture of a railroad spike.
> 
> Interesting ideas, Spike!  Some comments:
> 
> Internationally understood icons are not as easy as you 
> think.  I researched
> this almost 15 years ago for some computer work.  Many icons 
> make sense in
> one language, but not another.

Ja, and that is why I suggested animations, something that
would have been difficult even 15 yrs ago with the computer
tech available then.  Read on:
  
> 
> - The "hotness" of taco sauce can be represented by a thermometer in
> English, because the word "hot" means high temperature and 
> high spiciness.

Good example.  The usage hot(2) might have an animation such
as this: Lara Croft using salsa, nothing happens, Lara Croft
using hot(2) salsa, gasps throat, eyes bug out, face flushes,
breathes fire.  Any culture would grok the meaning of hot(2).
Lara Croft would figure big in this universal dictionary.

Motion animations would be absolutely necessary to make
this scheme work.  Consider:

"spike the punch"
and
"punch the spike"

One would need an animation of Lara pouring vodka into the party
drink bowl, and the other of her striking the railroad tie
with her fist.  Either way, given computer animations are the
easiest and perhaps the only good way to explain the concepts.

> - Remember that the Red Cross has to be changed to the Red 
> Crescent in the Middle East.
> - Some cultures find the words "encrypted" and "decrypted" to 
> be offensive swear-words because they refer to crypts or dead bodies.

> (International
> security documents use "encipher" and "decipher" for this reason.) 
> - The thumb-and-circle "OK" sign and the pilot's "thumbs up" sign are
> offensive vulgar gestures in some cultures...

The cultural stuff you mention is a big issue.  I am in an 
antique motorcycle e-group which had a young engine builder 
from Japan, a really nice guy, a Japanese Anders.  He was using
a literal translator program since he speaks no English.
We kept getting all messed up because he had all this odd cultural
baggage.  You had to love that guy: he was so deferential
and polite.  But it became maddening, for in his culture
most of our comments somehow could be interpreted as insults!
None of them were meant as such: he was one of our MVPs,
our mascot.

He would post such things as: "I am down face and shame, for
I have caused great harmful words to all!  Forgive please for
my speaking language is not well!  I will struggle great to
make clear my meaning and not cause embarrass further!"

Then we would post back "Hironaga San!  Do not be down face
and shame, you cause no embarrass, for we loooove you man!"

etc.  I have no clue how the heck that translated back
into Japanese, but in the long run it just didn't work
out.  He kept thinking we were making fun of him I 
suppose.  

So if we do manage to create a universal translation tool,
keep in mind that fine shades of meaning are lost.
It would not be a suitable language in which to write
poetry, carry on a flame war or seduce one's lover.  I think
of it more as analogous to engineering specification language,
where words have a very specific meaning.

But I think Lara Croft would have a certain universal appeal.

spike