[extropy-chat] When did WTA turn socialist???

[Harvey Newstrom]

On Saturday, June 12, 2004, at 05:12 am, Giu1i0 Pri5c0 wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:44:45 -0400, MIKE TREDER <iph1954 at msn.com> 
> wrote:
>> I appeal to everyone – WTA members, Extropians, transhumanists of all
>> stripes – to refocus on our highest priorities. Let's begin by making


> We have several transhumanist groups, each with its own specific
> flavour. The main differences are political (the socialist vs.
> libertarian struggle).

The main differences between transhumanist groups is whether they are 
socialist vs. libertarian?  That is the primary struggle between groups 
like ExI and WTA?  When did this occur???  What the hell are you 
talking about???

> As Fabio (Estropico) was among the first to make explicit a couple of
> years ago, the Central Transhumanist Meme (CTM) in itself is
> compatible with both the socialist and libertarian worldviews.

Do the WTA founders really see all of transhumanism boiling down to 
socialists vs. llbertarians?  That is bizarre!  Although this explains 
James' Politics of Transhumanism which tries to position ExI into the 
libertarian camp and WTA into the socialist camp.  It also explains 
Nick's original WTA FAQ which stated that WTA was formed by people who 
wanted a global transhumanist group with different political leanings.  
(It even explains the political survey of the members, showing lots of 
socialists.  It also explains James' recent donation in the name of WTA 
dedicated to a famous socialist.)

I guess I was just oblivious and blind to the obvious clues!  Was this 
the original purpose of the WTA all along?  To promote a world 
socialist order of transhumanism?  I can see hints of this looking back 
at the original founding documents, but it certainly wasn't clear to me 
at the time!  I had no idea what I was getting myself into.

> Face it, the transhumanist movement will always be split in separate
> groups, and none of the separate groups is likely to achieve a
> critical mass on its own. If we want to achieve a critical mass, we
> must find some way to collaborate on the important issues.
> Instead of fighting OVER politics in transhumanist fora, we should
> fight FOR transhumanism in political fora. If you are a socialist,
> argue for transhumanism in your camp. If you are a libertarian, argue
> for transhumanism in your camp. And let our transhumanist lists become
> meme factories to facilitate this work.

You really think that promoting libertarianism and/or socialism is the 
key to success for the transhumanist movement?

> So I support
> Mike's call for a group hug, and will do my best to facilitate it.

I'm not sure Mike would appreciate his efforts at peace being converted 
into a political agenda.  In fact, I am not sure that most WTA members 
would appreciate WTA being used to promote a socialist world order.  
(Although a large percentage of WTA members are socialists of some sort 
or another, now that I look at the recent member survey again.)

I guess I never made the connection.  I had no idea that we were 
supposed to be socialists versus libertarians.  Has this always been 
the case as far as the WTA leadership is concerned?  Or is this a new 
change for the organization?  No wonder I didn't fit in with all the 
secretive machinations of the rulers over the members.

Sheesh!  Surely transhumanism should be something different than this.  
I don't think socialism versus libertarianism has every been a core 
part of transhumanism for decades.  This seems to be a socialist 
take-over of transhumanism from the inside, using secret agendas and 
revisionist history.  I don't think most transhumanists want to be 
world socialists.  I think these political aspirations are being tacked 
onto the movement later by people with some pretty aggressive political 
agendas.  The original transhumanists that were active decades before 
WTA would not recognize any of the above political ranting as being 
related to transhumanism in any way.  And frankly, neither do I.

--
Harvey Newstrom, CISSP, CISA, CISM, IAM, IBMCP, GSEC
<HarveyNewstrom.com>