[extropy-chat] Re: [wta-talk] Group Hug

[Reason]

---> Natasha Vita-More [mailto:natasha at natasha.cc]

>>At 12:03 PM 6/12/04 -0700, Reason wrote:
>>
>>My reading of the Extropy Principles (
>>http://www.extropy.org/principles.htm ) is that they require a
>>libertarian system of governance: right there under "open society"
>>is a long description of the desirable traits of a minarchist or
>>otherwise distributed governance system. So from this, and many
>>other statements and actions, I conclude that the current
>>leadership of ExI is biased towards libertarianism despite the
>>public stance of non-alignment.
>
>Reason, you are incorrect.  The philosophy of extropy and its
>principles do not rely on any one political system to function.
>That would be very narrow in scope and contrary to futurism.  In
>order to understand this, one might have to be knowledgeable in history
>and theories of social change, but I don't think so.  What we need to
>do is to think outside the political box. That box is too small and
>lacks enough holes to allow a sufficient flow of oxygen (maybe that is
>why brains are faltering when transhumanists base everything on
>politics! :-))
>
>Now, here is the key:  an open society is quite democratic.  Do you
>know what open society means in principle?  "Definitions of open
>society on the Web:  a society that allows its members considerable
>freedom (as in a democracy). " This principle does not mean, "an open
>society where no rules apply."   For goodness sakes!  We need rules to
>coexist in the world.

The perception that a libertarian society is a society without rules (I
assume you mean rules in the sense of laws) is a disturbingly common one.
It's wrong. A society without laws is an anarchy. Libertarianism is not
anarchism: it encompasses differing forms of governance (including the
inappropriately named anarcho-capitalism) that are all characterised by a
strong rule of law. The principle difference between these societies and any
present day state are the ways in which this law is arrived at, changed, and
enforced.

In general, libertarianism tends to decentralization of decision making and
dispute resolution mechanisms, and thus greater personal freedom through
true pluralism. Coercion through force for any reason other than
self-defense is frowned upon. Freedom of choice, contract, and association
is prized. Most present day systems of government tend towards
centralization and thus suppression of individual choice. Coercion through
force is everywhere, and freedom of choice, contract and association thus
suffers accordingly.

Now you can argue that the lines in the principles that say:

"Opposing authoritarian social control and unnecessary hierarchy and
favoring the rule of law and decentralization of power and responsibility.
Preferring bargaining over battling, exchange over extortion, and
communication over compulsion."

and the lengthy expansion of these lines in section 5 do not refer to
libertarian ideals if you like, but I'm really not convinced. So we should
probably leave it there.

Reason
Founder, Longevity Meme