MNT development (was Re: [extropy-chat] Nanotech educations)

[Eugen Leitl]

On Mon, Jun 28, 2004 at 11:39:10AM -0400, Chris Phoenix wrote:

> I'm not suggesting that CAD should be used to develop molecular 
> machines.  But many products of MNT will have molar numbers of atoms in 
> multi-scale heterogeneous structure implementing complicated multi-scale 
> function, and there's no bookkeeping system of any kind today that can 
> deal with that.

True, but modular systems above mesoscale (which we currently can address,
albeit not a single desktop) are rather far removed in design space. If you
look at the scale comparison http://moleculardevices.org/howbig.htm
then a current PC can about handle the tooltip, and the positioning mechanics
and logics.
 
> A few years ago, I wasn't bemoaning the lack of such software.  But 
> today, I think that software may well require the most calendar time to 
> prepare.

By the time we have to deal with systems taking mole number of atoms, we will
have computers with mole number of switches. There are already commercial
packages with handle mesoscale without involving full atomic detail. 

Imo, this is not something we should focus on right now.
 
> Serious charges.  I'll investigate.

The archives are all online. I stopped posting queries later on, due to
danger of appearing a yet another lunatic.
 
> >We need a validated library of mechanosynthesis reactions.
> 
> This is one of the things we need.  But there's no reason other than 
> political that requires us to develop all the technologies one by one in 
> sequence.

I understand the machine-phase camp (with the exception of Zyvex, and maybe a
couple of stealth) projects is currently largely into politics. Which isn't
at all wrong, if it can bring R&D money into the issue.
 
> Would a validated library of reactions be useful in convincing people...
> that eutactic mechanosynthetic exponential manufacturing...
> would result in system performance as calculated in Nanosystems?

It would sure as hell cause people to functionalize their proximal probe
tips, and start measuring, resulting in a wealth of experimental data, and
many new leads we have yet no idea of.
 
> If not, then we need something else.  Because without that 
> understanding, there's not much motivation to develop the reaction library.

Anyone who can build and controllably break 2d stuff on HOPG is going to
score a publication bigtime. If you can do that, and show a way to scale
this, people will scramble to get in there.
 
> >After we have that, you can use these atomic anabolic/catabolic steps +
> >deposition constraints to create the MNT equivalent of a silicon compiler.
> 
> Yes.  But even before this is done, we can be working on design methods 
> for molecules, machines, systems, and products.  We may have to change 

Everyone think we're nuts, because they don't see a way how to big this.
Before you can win the 100 m sprint, it's usually a good idea to demonstrate
that you have legs.

> the designs once we see what chemistry we have to work with.  It may not 
> be vacuum scanning-probe deposition at all.  And it may not make 

The way how bonds are created and break is not dependant on a particular
environment. If you can make it there (in UHV), you can make it anywhere
(water, just remove it).

> diamond.  But many people today still think you can't do engineering at 

Forget diamond, caged polymer is indistinguishable from diamond for all
practical purposes. Showing that you can have excellent control of
polymerization at single monomer level is sufficient to build about anything
interesting there is. A hybrid approach can take components from a stochastic
synthesis. Etc.

> that scale at all.  I don't think MNT can be developed efficiently under 
> those conditions.

Right now molecular manufacturing is languishing in a ghetto similiar to how
cryobiologists are regarding cryonics. Unless there is a way to break out of
that ghetto, the mainstream will completely envelop and encapsulate this,
leaving even not memory behind.

If we want it now, and in a specific way (I really really don't like to see
molecular manufacturing being pioneered as military hardware) we need to change our
behaviour, and to focus our efforts to break out of that jail.
 
> Anyone who wants MNT developed ASAP should be supporting parallel work 
> on: 1) the chemical library; 2) the design software (a HUGE task); 3) 
> bootstrapping/enabling technologies (largely underway, could benefit 
> from more targeted purpose); 4) high-level architectural work 
> (fundamental, and almost completely unaddressed).
> 
> >I will people here would talk Jaguar, Gaussiand and Gamess (and that 
> >package
> >Zyvex is using) instead of AutoCAD.
> 
> I want to see some software that integrates chemical packages, or at 
> least chemical results, with CAD software that can handle quadrillions 
> of components.

Again, QM is sufficient to model what occurs at the reaction site, and MD
scales to 10^9 atoms. Above, there are semicontinuum mesoscale codes which
can take to macroscale, where you have CAD with finite elements, CFD, and 
whatnot.

The toolbox is there, we don't have to integrate it now, but we have to pick
it up and start cranking. (To repeat what I've been saying for some 6 years).
 
> >Anyone now go read http://discuss.foresight.org/~pcm/nanocad/index.html
> 
> There are hundreds of posts there.  I usually make a point of reading 
> URLs, but you'll have to narrow it down some. :-)

It is really worthwhile to read in more detail, because the threads discussed
there are still depressingly relevant. More relevant than ever, possibly.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
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http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net
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