[extropy-chat] E-Prime

[Dan Clemmensen]

David Lubkin wrote:

> Dan Clemmensen wrote:
>
>> "John's birthday will occur on Friday."
>>
>> (I assert that this statement implies the second statment also,
>> because you know that today is not Friday.)
>
>
> The context in which the question occurred was that a correspondent 
> asserted that "today is X's birthday" and I wished to correct them. 
> Your rephrase doesn't reflect the need in conversation to explicitly 
> deny the initial assertion.
>
>> However, "birthday" is not precise, so the following may be better:
>>
>> "John's mother bore John on a prior anniversary of Friday."
>>
>> I have not studied E-prime. I simply restated your assertion in
>> less ambiguous english.
>
>
> Your second rephrase presupposes existence of a mother and of pregnancy.
>
> Of more immediate concern, no form either of us presented clarifies 
> the calendrical system in use. Indeed, my grandmother celebrated her 
> birthday on the anniversary of its date according to the Hebrew 
> calendar and even did not know her correct Gregorian birth date.
>
> I had disputes with my ex-wife over whether a day began at sundown the 
> night before, at midnight, or at a reasonable morning hour. (When does 
> a custodial period begin or end?)
>
> And my daughter takes birth time and time zone into account, and 
> raises a glass at the precise time designated on her birth certificate.
>
>
I think that the following is an unambiguous statement of what you were 
trying to convey:
"John celebrates the holiday he calls his "birthday" on Friday, not today."
   or even
"John celebrates his birthday on Friday, not today."

My earlier example did not presuppose the existence of a mother. The 
speaker can use it when
the speaker knows the circumstances and the speaker desires to convey 
them. Your other
examples demonstrate that you wanted to refer to "birthday" in the sense 
of a personal holiday.
The word "celebrates" (or "observes") do not conote anything about the 
actual date of birth.
Since you want to convey John's actions or state of mind, you do in fact 
need the "not today:" John
could after all elect to observe his birthday twice, or for a period 
longer than a day.