[extropy-chat] Re: Structure of AI

[Samantha Atkins]

I do not agree with your reductionism.  I don't agree that everything 
real is fully reducible to physics unless much of what is meaningful to 
critters like us is lost in the process.   In particular I don't 
believe that lack of having come up with a test for "free will" means 
that the existence of free will is in doubt.   I don't believe that all 
that is real or important can be reduced to "testable physical 
predicates".   Furthermore, I don't believe that you fully and 
consistently believe this either.

- samantha

On Nov 24, 2004, at 1:22 AM, Eliezer Yudkowsky wrote:

> Samantha Atkins wrote:
>> On Nov 23, 2004, at 2:51 AM, Eliezer Yudkowsky wrote:
>>>> Is a simulation 'detailed enough' the same as a simulation
>>>> 'deterministic enough'? Because, in this case, the simulation
>>>> would be too strong, that is to say no 'free will' (whatever it 
>>>> means) would be allowed.
>>>
>>> This is where Adrian's rule comes in handy; until you can give me an 
>>> experimental test for the presence or absence of free will, you're 
>>> not allowed to talk about it.  :)
>> Now who's being silly?
>
> I'm quite serious.  Adrian is right about the principle; his 
> foolishness lies in lecturing a Bayesian Master on such a simple 
> topic.  If you live your life by the precept of testability you shall 
> not go astray.  If you cannot give a testable physical predicate for 
> the presence or absence of free will, that does, indeed, indicate a 
> deep and fundamental confusion; for if there is no physical predicate 
> then whatever you are talking about must be orthogonal to physics, 
> hence orthogonal to the universe, hence orthogonal to yourself and any 
> thoughts you possess that have been sparked by observation of any real 
> thing.
>
> -- 
> Eliezer S. Yudkowsky                          http://singinst.org/
> Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence
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