[extropy-chat] Atheists launch inquisition...

[Joseph Bloch]

Mike Lorrey wrote:

>
>Nope. I am asserting that in order to be an atheist, you must believe
>in the non-existence of god. To simply not have faith in or knowledge
>knowledge of god's existence is agnosticism.
>  
>

You can redefine things to mean what you want them to mean, rather than 
what they really mean (to the people to whom they apply), but it seems 
rather pointless. Much like this entire conversation, which could just 
as easily be had in any AOL chatroom with the word "Atheism" in the title.

Atheism is the lack of belief in god(s). The position that god(s) do not 
exist does _not_ require proof any more than the position that Santa 
Claus does not exist. Sorry that infuriates you so, Mike, but that's the 
way it is. You can torture the words all you want, you can trot out the 
Simulation Argument as some sort of "theism must be correct" trump 
card-- which it is not  by any stretch of the imagination-- all you 
want. But it doesn't change the fact that theism is a positive 
assertion-- the assertion that god(s) exist in a universe that does not 
require their existence and provides no objective evidence of their 
existence-- and thus possesses the burden of proof. In the absence of 
evidence, the rational choice is to _not_ believe until such evidence is 
presented.

The universe doesn't need your god, Mike. If it exists, it's doing a 
great job of hiding itself, much like Santa Claus. I don't have to 
"believe in the non-existence of god" any more than you have to "believe 
in the non-existence of Santa Claus". I have given you no reason to 
believe in the existence of the jolly ol' elf, and you have given me no 
evidence to believe in any god(s). Just as the rational choice is to not 
believe in St. Nick unless someone presents objective evidence that he 
exists, so too the rational choice is to not believe in god(s) unless 
someone presents objective evidence that it/they exist.

Interestingly, the reason some people believe in Santa Claus is the same 
that most people believe in god(s). They were told to believe so by 
their parents, and children being trusting little tykes, they believe 
what they're told. If only they outgrew their belief in god(s) when they 
outgrew their belief in Santa Claus, the world, I am convinced, would be 
a better place.

Joseph