[extropy-chat] Bush wants another $75 billion for wars

Al Brooks kerry_prez at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 29 03:39:08 UTC 2004


Forget Bush for now, the monk was right. 
You don't seriously want to be a neo-Marxist at the
age of 44, do you? It's all based on rope-a-dope,
tricking men (or boys) into being troubadors. Sean,
Marxism is a particularly bad religion, not good
politics-- take it from someone who knows.



> As an aside, I recently listened to a monk who one
> considered explored
> communism/socialism. He attended one of those
> meetings decades ago in
> England during Vanessa Redgrave's prime activist
> period. After she spoke, he
> stood up and said "presumably, to achieve your
> goals, you must change the
> mindset of everyone who does not agree with you. But
> you cannot ever do
> this. Therefore, the only other answer is to kill
> them. And who is going to
> do that? You, Vanessa? Everyone here in this
> building?" - silence.....
> 
> As another aside, Bush says "you are either with us,
> or against us"  - seems
> to me that was about bringing the entire world to
> heel.
> 
> I think you really were triggered by my use of
> marxist terminologies to
> describe the huge and widening gap between the mega
> rich and everyone else.
> 
> The compassion I speak of is not individual, either.
> I'm talking about
> collective compassion built into the
> philosophical/political/economic
> construct.
> Currently, this doesn't exist in any meaningful way
> as far as I can tell, in
> ANY system except some of the remaining tribal
> communities, as all have been
> usurped in one way or another.  
> When I speak of compassion, I see it as a "verb" in
> the sense that true
> compassion requires an activity reflecting the
> empathy/sympathy. 
> 
> But yes, I am guilty in this respect of one thing -
> when corporations and/or
> individuals amass HUGE fortunes, there are always
> sources for those
> fortunes. Winners, losers. It is not an endless,
> infinite bucket of
> money/resources. I ask "how much is enough?" Should
> there be requirements to
> return such wealth beyond a certain point? 
> Should the current checks and balances be
> restructured from the top down,
> philosophically, economically, politically?
> Will emerging technologies make it easier to
> implement such restructuring,
> particularly with respect to renewal of resources?
> 
> One of the reasons I posted the Naomi Klein article
> was that it described
> the carve up of another country's resources "at the
> barrel of a gun" by
> corporate entities who seem to be very good examples
> of my terminology
> "rampant, unchecked capitalism" of which war
> profiteering is surely the
> ugliest example.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> >I want to help those less well off in this world,
> but I want it done
> ethically, without coersion, and in the way that I
> deem proper.
> 
> --------------------------------
> 
> I like that sentence a lot, but I'm not sure about
> the last bit....
> 
> ---------------------------------- 
> > 
> > Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the term
> "libertarian" is used within
> > this list. There seems to be many definitions,
> from libertarian
> > socialism to anarchic definitions to US
> liberalism, depending on
> > whether one has a US perspective or European.
> 
> The idea that one can have freedom and
> self-ownership without having
> the right to own and reinvest the fruits of one's
> labor, and the
> profits from that investment, is laughable,
> erroneous, and truly
> irrational.
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> I agree. But I am not an "absolutist". At what cost?
> What is the
> responsibility towards the inevitable losers? Should
> economic and political
> power be attached to wealth?
> Should unfeeling, cynical exploitation of the
> ignorant or weak be fair game?
> Should exploitation of limited resources be fair
> game? Is war "fair game"? 
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > I like the way this page hows the confusion (and
> hence, my need to
> > know more about the views of the libertarians
> within this email list)
> 
> > 
> > http://www.free-definition.com/Libertarianism.html
> > 
> > I would have thought that a more egalitarian world
> would be a
> > desirable outcome post-singularity. Am I wrong or
> misguided to hope
> > for this? If this is a desirable outcome, what is
> the hope or
> > motivation to achieve such an outcome without
> acceptance of a global
> > "duty of care"? Surely, egalitarian outcomes
> should apply to all,
> > not just those in countries wealthy enough to
> afford the benefits
> > of new technologies?  
> 
> The definition of a Libertarian is a person who
> believes that it is
> wrong to initiate force against another individual
> for any reason. That
> is all.
> 
> This includes initiating force against others in
> order to steal their
> property to pay for your 'egalitarianism'. Economic
> equality and
> Liberty do not mix.
> 
> ----------------------------------
> Presumably, that is _your_ definition, as there are
> many others. And when a
> libertarian observes another entity "initiating
> force" against a third
> party, does the libertarian then take the
> initiative, or stand by and allow
> it to occur? When, if ever, is intervention
> supported? How does this work on
> a micro and macro level? (i.e. individual/society,
> individual
> property/town/city/state/country/global)
>  
> I did not mention force against others to pay for
> egalitarian outcomes, nor
> do I advocate this.
> Rather, my fervent hope is that technology makes it
> _easier_ (and therefore
> desirable) to obtain more egalitarian outcomes.
> Your final sentence seems to imply such a hope is
> futile.
> Do you reject the notion that a more egalitarian
> world would be a better
> place to live in, if a way could be found to arrive
> closer to a mix of
> equality and liberty?
> 
> Sean  
>  
> 
> 
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> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>
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> 


		
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