[extropy-chat] urban sprawl as defense

[Samantha Atkins]

On Aug 24, 2004, at 9:31 AM, Mike Lorrey wrote:

>
> --- "Stephen J. Van Sickle" <sjvans at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2004-08-24 at 01:53, Samantha Atkins wrote:
>>
>>> I have mentioned a few already.  Beyond that I don't think an
>> honest
>>> look can fail to supply you with as many examples as you have the
>>> stomach for.
>>
>> That's a cop out.  You made the claim, now refuse to back it up.
>> Just a few words would do.
>
> Don't worry, she had claimed that the Iraqi invasion would take 100,000
> lives. The occupation hasn't even taken a tenth of that.

I am not going to get drawn into such a game when I have been shown in 
most respects to be eloquently right about the entire Iraq adventure 
being utterly unnecessary, reprehensible and very costly in multiple 
aspects.  How many ultimately die by whose count by the time it is 
finally over (it certainly isn't yet) is relatively small potatoes in 
the full context of the debacle.

>
>>
>> I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there were some, which is why I
>> wanted examples.  I can find "oppressive" actions, but that is the
>> nature of both government and war.  Shooting someone is a pretty
>> oppressive act.  I don't think we are doing away with either
>> government or war in the near future.
>
> Government being oppressive is a very rational behavior. Being rational
> does not mean being ethical, moral, good, right, or honorable.
>
>

A war we had no business going to and that we were lied to completely 
on.   Being rational has a tremendous amount  to do with acting 
honorably.   Those without honor are treated and held very badly.  If 
the dishonorable have vastly more arms or money this may be somewhat 
masked for a time. But rational people would find that tremendously 
counterproductive and contrary to what they hold dear.

On examples, I have much, much better things to do than go dig up 
examples for folks who if they are honest, and interested, can easily 
find all the examples they want.   I refuse to go through the useless 
rounds of denial of validity of facts or sources, excuse making,  
arguments on various points of the form of the argument itself, 
comparisons to Vietnam, denunciations of those opposed to Vietnam and 
by extension whatever war we are in now,  rationalization, new 
examples.. <iterate> and off into numerous tangents along the way.   I 
consider it a waste of valuable time and brainpower of a bunch of very 
bright people who inhabit this list.

- samantha