[extropy-chat] Mature rationality

[Zero Powers]

I think I see what you are getting at.  But I would not call that
being irrational.  In fact, making yourself believe you can win the
race even though you know you are running against a record-holder
seems quite rational given the fact that faith in success is one of
the prime components of a successful outcome.

I'm not really much of a runner, and before a couple years ago had
never done *any* distance running.  Having reached my 40th birthday I
decided it was now or never time for me to run a marathon.  There were
many, many times throughout my months of training where everything
seemed to demonstrate to me that I'd never be able to do it.  But I
kept convincing myself I could do it, and surrounded myself with
people who also encouraged me in that belief.  I am certain that if I
gave into the reasonable (if not rational) doubts about my chances of
success I would have given up on the training and quit long before
race day.

I did everything I could to convince myself that my self-doubts were
unfounded, even though those doubts had a very rational basis.  But
the whole time I was convincing myself I fully realized that my faith
in my success would make it that much more likely that I'd actually be
able to do it.  I guess we could argue about it, but its seems to me
that I was being very rational in my self-motivational techniques,
rather than irrational.

Zero


On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:14:29 +0200, Giu1i0 Pri5c0 <pgptag at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have many examples. Often you know that you do X better (X = sport,
> business meeting, sex, ...) if you work yourself in a dreamy state of mind
> where it is the only thing that matter so you give it total concentration
> (they call this "flow" these days). But the belief that winning the dart
> game at the pub is the most important thing in the world is irrational,
> isn't it? (it is not so terribly important and there are probably other
> things that you should be using your time for).
> Sometimes when you want to achieve an objective you may choose to work
> yourself in a positive state of mind where you firmly believe that you will
> achieve it. This belief is irrational when you know that probabilities are
> against you. But believing that you will win gives you some kind of positive
> energy that (as far as the outcome does depend on how you play) actually
> increases your chances.
> I think we can make examples in artistic creation (I am not the right person
> to do it as I have no artistic talent).
> Sometimes you are just happier if you let yourself believe, for a little
> while, things that you know are probably not correct. Being happier
> energizes you and makes you perform better in other things.
> In summary I think rationality is one of many behaviour modes that we can
> choose, probably the best one most of the times but not the only one. The
> best thing to do would be choosing (rationally) whether you want to think
> and act rationally or not in a given situation (using for example what Greg
> Egan calls "outlooks").
> G.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
> [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org]On Behalf Of Zero Powers
> Sent: miércoles, 15 de septiembre de 2004 5:54
> To: Giu1i0 Pri5c0; ExI chat list
> Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Mature rationality
> 
> Hmm.  Examples please?  When have you "slipped into an irrational
> mode" (whatever that means) and actually performed better?  Are you
> talking about some extreme statistical probability endeavor (i.e.
> picking lottery numbers), or an everyday task where your behavior
> actually has some reasonably predictable probability of effecting the
> desired result (i.e. conducting a business or creative transaction)?
> 
> I'm really interested in getting some idea of what you're talking about.
> 
> Zero
> 
> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:40:39 +0200, Giu1i0 Pri5c0 <pgptag at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Come on Eliezer, rationality is a wonderful thing but lets not turn it
> > into a cage for thoughts. In some circumstances you actually perform
> > better, in an objective sense, if you choose to let yourself slip into
> > an irrational mode for a little while. Ever tried?
> > G.