[extropy-chat] Value chain tracing was FWD [U-Tapao] Re: IS IT TIME TO RATION FUEL?

[Brett Paatsch]

> On Mon, Aug 22, 2005 at 07:58:38PM +1000, Brett Paatsch wrote:
>
> > That is interesting if its specifically true. 2.5 times equivalent unit
> > weight seems like quite a transportation premium being enjoyed
> > or befuddled somewhere. I'm not doubting your honesty just wondering how
>
> Fossil prices have only very little to do with production costs, but
> everything with taxation or subsidies.

I reckon your probably pretty right Eugen but getting at the purer truth
of it might be fun, but bearing in mind I'm in not in either Europe or
the US I think we need to get specific because the variatious in taxes
and charges and profit margins etc are very likely to exist within such
big geographic areas, thats why I want to hone in one particular petrol
station one in each of two particular places. (And it makes sense that
each of these be stations that are of least some interest to someone
involved in the conversation.

Heck pick stations in built up areas and the internet could possibly
give us the tech to look at satelight photos in real time. I doubt we'll
get satelight photos of bowser prices that sort of resolution is likely
asking a bit much.

> The most I paid for 98 lead-free super seems to have been 1.39 EUR/l
> yesterday, and day before.  (1 US gallon = 3.7854118 liters, according
> to Google).

> It is interesting whether this level of taxation is sustainable.

That's the spirit Eugen we'll make a political economist of you yet!

> End consumers are one thing, but transportation costs alre already
> causing company bancruptcy on a rising scale.

Okay, sure, but thats too general an observation for us to play with.
If you tell me that petrol station Eugens-regular-retailer located at
the corner of x and y streets in put-Eugen's hometown here. Then we
can start to do some net research into the value chains that puts
the petrol into your car there at a different price to Bill (well Bill's
also in Europe we need an American to play, but dang they are
all so shy. Hey, where IS Mike Lorrey he will know the price
of petrol any square ten centremetres of new hampshire and exactly
which particulary gummint critters at which level state and federal are
actually aiming to put their hands on it or he is not the real Mike
Lorrey.

> As jobs jobs jobs are the new mantra, anything that is hurting
> the companies (state deficits be damned) is increasingly becoming
> a hard and harder sell politically.

That new mantra is global your local pollies aren't picking on you.




BillK wrote: <pharos at gmail.com>
To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] FWD [U-Tapao] Re: IS IT TIME TO RATION FUEL?


> On 8/22/05, Brett Paatsch wrote:
>>
>> That is interesting if its specifically true. 2.5 times equivalent unit
>> weight
>> seems like quite a transportation premium being enjoyed or befuddled
>> somewhere. I'm not doubting your honesty just wondering how
>> specifically true it is. If we could get someone on the list to look out
>> their window in say some specific town and street in Texas and read off
>> the bowser price of fuel and have someone else do the same in some
>> town and street in Europe we could play ourselves a nice little game of
>> trace the value chain.
>>
>
> The difference is mostly high taxation in Europe to get money for the
> government without obviously high taxes. And also to try and reduce
> oil consumption.
>
> Here in the UK the current gas price is around 0.90 UKP per litre.
> Now for the technical bit.
> UKP = 1.80 USD,  1 US gallon = 3.785 litres
> So the current UK gas price is about 0.90 x 3.785 x 1.80 = 6.132 USD per 
> gallon.
> The current price in Pittsburg is around 2.50 USD per US gallon.
>
>
>> Gas, or petrol or whatever you happen to call your dead tree juice
>> of hydrocarbons is very much a commodity and the brands on the
>> petrol stations in that town in Europe and Texas would be conspicuous
>> also. Obviously the exchange rates for the relevant currencies would be
>> too. The conversions wouldn't be too hard even for a relative maths
>> retard like myself to figure I suspect.
>>
>
>>
>> I reckon. But then you and I probably aren't specifically invested in
>> the petroleum infrastructure or its existant supporting industries or we
>> likely wouldn't be having this conversation in quite the same free and
>> easy way.
>>
>
> The petroleum companies do report large profits when the price goes
> up, but some of this is due to stocks bought at cheaper prices. In
> theory they need more money for oil exploration and getting oil from
> places that are more difficult to extract from.
>
> But here in Euroland we can blame the government for higher petrol prices.
> The libertarians should like that! ;)

I'm sure they do. And the public ones will place their reports on the 
internet
quite often. And the reports will often contain summaries on the industry
factors affecting profitablity.

My point is that we could probably work out pretty damn closely why
a litre of petrol costs X for Gene, Y for yourself, and Z for some USian
in a specific state with a specific tax regime. And using that baseline
analysis we could probably work out who is making how much money
where.

I think.

The notion that someone somewhere is getting filthy sneakily rich on oil
(and even going to war over it) sure as heck seems to be making some
folks at least a little antsy so lets turn on the light on the problem in a
practical and analytical way and see what the facts tell us.

Brett Paatsch