[extropy-chat] A Stateless Civilization?

[Technotranscendence]

On Sunday, December 04, 2005 7:19 PM BillK pharos at gmail.com wrote:
>> An institution having a monopoly on the use of legitimate force in a
>> given geographic area.  (As a corollary, in any contest between it
and
>> its subjects, it [the state] decides the outcome -- i.e., no one
inside
>> it has the legal right to appeal to an authority outside it.  If it
>> ceases to have this power, then it ceases to be a state.)
>
> Brits can take their case to the European Court after they have
> exhausted UK court procedures. The European Court quite often rules
> against the UK government and instructs them to recompense the
> complainant.
>
> Does that mean the UK is not a state?

EU seems on the way to becoming _the_ sole state in Europe.  However,
it's too early to tell if this process will actually create such a state
or if legal sovereignty really rests with the traditional nation states
making up the EU.  (I tend to accept the [neo]realist claim that such
agreements only remain in force as long as nation states let them remain
in force.  I.e., international institutions do not, for the most part,
socialize nation states as much as they [international institutions]
mask their [nation states'] intentions and actions.  Of course, nation
states themselves are not permanent actors on this stage.  They do come
and go.)

However, to answer your question directly: No.  The case here however is
a little different.  The UK still decides the issue and, I bet, if any
decision from the European Court threatens its sovereignty, it will opt
out.  If not, then, yes, it will cease to be a state and will, at best,
be a subsidiary of the EU -- much as one can in the US take local cases
to federal courts.  Of course, this could get complicated with the UK
accepting such decisions for a while, then deciding enough is enough.
(To be sure, one would have to define here just when such cases before
the Court are threatening and not mere nuisances, which might seem
subjective.  And, of course, maybe some observers who claim the era of
the nation state is at an end and we're entering another period of
divided sovereignty like the one that preceded the rise of nation
states.  There's nothing that makes such a thing impossible and it might
be that I'm overstating the case here...)

Regards,

Dan