[extropy-chat] Lists vs Boards (was Transhumanist Community)

[bluesteel_0 at yahoo.co.uk]

I prefer web boards/forum style systems, but one of
the problems with both the WTA and Extropy is that
forum access is rather hidden. Look on the home page
of both organisations and there is no obvious Forum
link. For the WTA as far as I can see, one must
register as a member then log in before the 'chat on
boards' option becomes visible, and for the Extropy
Institute one must click on 'subscribe to email list'
or 'extropy chat', then the ExI BBS option (third
down). Not exactly obvious, especially for new users.
If both of those organisations had a Forum link or
button on the homepage there may be more usage.

I subscribe to the lists now as its easier to gather
things together in one location (and some messages on
the ExI BBS from some posters always seem empty,
unless viewed via the list). This is fine when there
is low to moderate traffic, but one a thread takes
off, ones inbox can be inundated. Also with lists,
often messages are cross-posted, which means double
the volume. Maybe we need a central page for links to
all H+ Boards?


Julian



--- Giu1i0 Pri5c0 <pgptag at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brandon,
> there have been many attempts to create
> transhumanist web boards and
> move the discussion there from the mailing lists,
> but there has been a
> lot of inertia and after a while we always went back
> to mailing lists.
> For example the WTA forum is (login required):
> http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/forums/
> but apparently participants prefer to use the email
> list wta-talk.
> I understand this, as also for me email is more
> immediate and
> convenient. I see something interesting in my inbox,
> read it, reply
> immediately is I wish. Since I use gmail I am also
> able to find old
> posts by searching my mail.
> Or perhaps we are just too used to email.
> I am involved in some new thing that will be a mix
> of mailing list,
> blogging system, web board, tagged repository, etc.,
> something very
> web2.0 - but I realize that to make people use
> something instead than
> mailing lists, this something has to be much better
> and easier to use
> than a list.
> G.
> 
> On 12/7/05, Brandon Reinhart
> <transcend at extropica.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am speaking as a relatively new transhumanist.
> Those of you who are long
> > standing, highly active members of this community
> should not be offended by
> > my comments. I do not intend to indict or insult.
> >
> > -
> >
> > It seems to me that transhumanist community is in
> a sorry state. When I look
> > at sites that are well known to transhumanists, I
> see very low rates of
> > participation and conversion.
> >
> > Some thoughts on possible changes, improvements,
> and mistakes:
> >
> > 1. Favoring email lists instead of open forums.
> >
> > As far as I can tell, neither the WTA nor the
> Extropy Institute have public
> > web forums. Instead, the two organizations rely on
> majordomo style email
> > lists to facilitate communication. In my opinion
> this is a mistake.
> >
> > First, forums are more easily accessible than
> email lists. Any forum with a
> > modern thread view and search facility provides a
> simple UI for quickly
> > reading up on the latest discussion. If a reader
> wants to convert to
> > participant, they are probably more familiar with
> the account creation and
> > activation process of the major forum kits than
> majordomo, which is a
> > relatively aged piece of software.
> >
> > Second, forums are potentially less "hostile" than
> email discussion lists.
> > The email discussion list pushes data to the
> reader. Busy lists push so much
> > discussion as to be unusable in real-time. Users
> have to be fairly
> > interface-savvy in order to either A) filter the
> list into a separate folder
> > in their email client or B) request the server
> send a digest. I suspect that
> > the rapid-push nature of email lists could even
> alienate certain users in
> > the "unwanted email == spam" environment we live
> in today. While it is
> > probably reasonable to assume that most
> transhumanists are highly
> > computer-literate, it is no reason to make quality
> transhumanist discussion
> > only comfortably accessible to the class of
> individuals who are
> > computer-literate.
> >
> > Certainly, forums take more work to maintain,
> generally, than email lists.
> > The lowered barrier to accessibility means a
> somewhat lower signal-to-noise
> > ratio. Forums have to be monitored and abusive
> users have to be silenced.
> > Nonetheless, forums are very familiar to most web
> users, even at very low
> > levels of computer-literacy.
> >
> > Computer literacy is not, in my opinion, a
> prerequisite to being
> > transhumanist. After all, we extropians believe
> that art, music, and culture
> > is an integral part to creating a Nice Place To
> Live and many artists aren't
> > necessarily going to understand how to interact
> with majordomo, etc.
> >
> > 2. Not having any community at all.
> >
> > I'm _amazed_ that the Singularity Institute for
> Artificial Intelligence has
> > no forum what-so-ever. SIAI interests do maintain
> the SL4 mailing list but
> > it is clearly intended for highly technical
> discussion, not general
> > evangelism or community building. The SIAI seems
> to greatly desire an
> > increased audience for the "singularity is AI
> dammit!" meme, Yudkowsky's
> > philosophies in FAI and AGI construction, etc. Get
> a forum! Let people
> > respond! Get someone to answer those posts and
> actively engage your readers.
> > It isn't the only, final, or even necessarily the
> best path to getting that
> > audience, but it is a relatively simple start.
> >
> > 3. Utilize blog style focused content delivery and
> then direct conversation
> > to your forum.
> >
> > A front page with a blog structure is a great way
> to constantly push new
> > events in your organization. The organization must
> seem to be alive in order
> > to attract ongoing attention. If your front page
> hasn't been updated in
> > three months, people will stop visiting. On the
> other hand, if you update
> > with interesting (even if trivial) news about your
> organizations efforts,
> > people will return to learn and discuss.
> >
> > In my opinion, the blog should be the initial page
> (with direction to "who
> > we are" type of inquiries on a side panel menu). A
> few sites that do have
> > blogs have a static main page and a "read our
> blog" type of link buried
> > somewhere. This doesn't seem to be very effective.
> >
> > And yeah, I'm not walking the walk here either.
> Extropica is a potentially
> > cool name for a transhumanist-evangelist site, but
> I have neglected it.
> >
> > 4. Not pushing people to community in an intuitive
> way.
> >
> > I just popped open the ExI site in my browser. In
> the center of the page I
> > see something interesting: The Proactionary
> Principle. What is this? I want
> > to read about it. It's compelling content. I click
> on it and see a draft of
> > something interesting! Posted for public comment,
> awesome! But at the
> > bottom: "please submit your comments to Extropy
> Board of Directors."
> >
> > What? No!
> >
> > There should be a link to a public forum saying
> "comment and discuss this
> > and other ExI projects in our forums." Push those
> readers to the
> > conversation. We are talking about smart people.
> They want to talk about
> > what they just read. Or maybe just read what other
> people think. If they
> > post, you've more or less guaranteed they will
> return to your organization's
> > site and check the responses to their post.
> >
> > 5. Asking for the email address, before providing
> interesting information.
> >
> > I think that organizational updates sent by email
> are not as effective as
> > posting those updates on the main site, perhaps
> with a forum to seed a
> > discussion. SIAI has a "Free eBulletin" but an
> examination of the site's
> > front page reveals no way to get this information
> without giving them my
> > email address.
> 
=== message truncated ===

"Fahrkarte bis zur Endstation!"


		
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