[extropy-chat] Re: Qualia Bet

[Herb Martin]

gts wrote:
> Marc Geddes [wrote previously]
> > Tomatoes are red after all, just as common-sense was 
> informing us all
> > along.
> 
> Tonight, take a tomato from your kitchen.  Look at it in the dark. 
> You'll see that its grey, not red ;)
> 

And if you pay very careful attention to a tomato
place in the peripheral area of your vision (without
moving your eyes to directly towards it) you will
find that it is also grey there too.

(It's a little tricky to do, e.g., keeping from 
looking, and noticing that ACTUAL color transmitted
without allowing either you eyes to shift, nor to
accept the integrative functions of your mind which
normally "fill in" the expect color of things not
directly viewed.)

One related notes:  It isn't that hard to run a
hypnosis experiment (for those who know how to 
reliably perform hypnotic inductions that is) where
color vision is 'disabled' for noticeable periods
of time (I have done it for a 5-15 minutes on several
occasions.)

There is actually a use for this perhaps -- the
military has been said to make some limited use of 
"color blind" photoreconnaissance analysts and 
"door gunners" in helos as they are said to be
much harder to fool with camouflage.  A soldier
could be taught this trick when surveying a 
proposed path through disputed territory.

Another related odd factoid: Commercial divers
(who very frequently work in conditions of zero
visibility) actual speak of their work environment
in visual terms, and I have found myself to 
represent different shapes and textures by mental
images using 'colors/shades' -- these shades have 
consistent (over time) relationships to the smoothness
and hardness of the objects found in the water.

Pretty much what you might guess:  hard and smooth
is steel grey, while rough and softer is dark-wood
brown with reds being used for rough-hard as in
rusted iron.

I don't recall ever using much blue, yellow, or green 
when working underwater (in zero visibility conditions)
however.  (Unless I was handling an object that I 
had previously viewed and knew to have those colors.)

Prior to experiencing/learning this skill of visualization
I felt that I understood how blind people operate in
the world, but it was not until afterwards that I felt
I understood how they stay sane.

This (latter) may not be true, but it made sense to me,
at least for those who were not born blind.

In my experience underwater in limited visibility it is
actually easier to deal with NO VISIBILITY than very
slight (seeing light but no real detail vision) visibility;
professional divers frequently surface from such 
conditions with their eyes TIGHTLY SHUT.

Shutting out the light seems to enhance the use of the
visual areas for imaging the work environment.

Occasionally we would get a laugh when a diver had
to be reminded to "Open your eyes" on the surface;
it happens more often than you might think.


--
Herb Martin