[extropy-chat] FWD (PvT/TLC-Mission) Re: Arming the Vietnamese communists [new subj]

[Terry W. Colvin]

Terry,
 
Just a quick note; almost all of the Viet Minh artillery was US 105's from China
that were war booty from the defeat of the Chinese Nationalists and from Korea;
The AA was, I believe, Soviet, supplied via China; the individual weapons were a
mixture of Japanese, captured American, Soviet and Chinese. The vehicles they
had (not many, admittedly) were Soviet. Check out Bernard Fall's Street Without
Joy 
and Battle of Dien Bien Phu, also Battle of Dien Bien Phu by Jules Roy. These 
aren't complete as far as this specific topic goes but they give a good picture 
of the geopolitical situation present at the time. To use that famous military
non- word, "irregardless" of the manufacturer of the weapon, the stuff DID come
from/through China, mostly overland. "We" did supply some weapons to the
fledgling Viet Minh towards the end of WW2 but to infer that the French were
defeated by a bunch of barefooted natives armed only with said weapons is B.S.
More later as I
dig it up.
 
Tom
 


"Terry W. Colvin" <fortean1 at mindspring.com> wrote: 

       Anyone have sources citing the origin of weapons used by the Viet Minh
       during the Dien Bien Phu period?

       Terry


       --- "Terry W. Colvin" fnarded: 
       > Your comments ignore two indisputable facts: First, the Viet
       > Cong/Viet Minh were a large popular resistance faction that was in
       > action a long time before the CHINESE (not the Soviets as you claim)
       > began to support them. They effectively kicked the French out on
       > their own using the weapons that had been provided them to fight the
       > Japanese.

       While this is a popular lie promulgated among the left, the truth is
       markedly different. Anyone who knows anything about Dien Bien Phu knows
       that the artillery and anti-aircraft weaponry, both of immense and
       crucial importance in the NVA victory over the French there, were NOT
       of western manufacture, they were specifically Soviet made weapons, as
       were most infantry weapons used even then. There was a very good
       documentary this past weekend on the military channel covering the CIA
       front, Civil Air Transport (predecessor to Air America) and its
       involvement in supplying French forces at Dien Bien Phu. They had
       extensive interviews with Vietnamese soldiers and officers and NVA film
       archive footage.


       Anyone who begins a paragraph with the words "This is a popular lie
promulgated
       by..." anyone needs to come up with better documentation than a
right-wing organ
       like the military channel. The last program I saw on that crackpot
channel had
       the idiot whacko Boykin showing an actual photograph of a demon from hell
flying
       over Mogadishu. Haven't been back since.

       Since you purport to know so much about it, kindly tell us specifically
what 
       these "specifically Soviet made weapons" were. Since of course I can
provide
       upon request photographic documentation that the artillery was primarily
105mm,
       of essentially the same type used by US Airborne troops through the
1970s,
       you're 
       going to have an uphill battle establishing their Soviet manufacture.
Same is
       true of the M-1 Carbines you see the Viet Minh carrying in the famous
photos.
       Naturally, since Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity tell you you have to
believe the
       Soviets were behind everything that went wrong with your rightwing
universe, it
       won't change your mind, but the rest of the list will find it interesting
to
       watch you scrounge for
       specifics.

       Ed


-- 
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1 at mindspring.com >
     Alternate: < fortean1 at msn.com >
Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html >
Sites: * Fortean Times * Mystic's Haven * TLCB *
      U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program
------------
Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List
   TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > [Southeast Asia
veterans, Allies, CIA/NSA, and "steenkeen" contractors are welcome.]