[extropy-chat] Authenticity, extropy, libertarianism, and history

[Jef Allbright]

Mike Lorrey wrote:>

>  --- Jef Allbright <jef at jefallbright.net> wrote:
>
> > I have always seen the concept of extropy as being more abstract
> > and universal than any specific implementation of a set of
> > political/ social beliefs. Indeed, embracing "spontaneous order"
> > and rejection of "static utopia" logically lead one to a
> > transpolitical stance, in my opinion.

>static utopia != libertarian utopia
>
>Libertarian utopias are generally quite dynamic, which is their point,
>because stasis requires regulation to acheive and maintain. It
>therefore follows that without regulation, you get dynamism.
>  
>
I would be very hard-pressed to argue libertarian theory with one with 
as much practice at it as you, but it seems to me that dynamical systems 
without regulation tend to reach their limits and expire prematurely, 
before they're able to evolve to a higher level of organization.

>And, no, extropy can't be transpolitical, as the principles clearly
>exclude political memes that conflict with them, such as those opposing
>technological progress and self determination of individuals, promoting
>ignorance and superstition, etc.
>  
>
It appears you may be conflating "transpolitical" with "apolitical".  We 
all live in a political environment and it would be counter-productive 
to act as if we were beyond political concerns. But just as we talk 
about transhumans transcending the current limitations of our human 
experience, we can talk of being transpolitical in the sense of 
transcending the current limitations of our political systems. 

It seems to me that capital-L Libertarian policies do have limitations 
and will eventually evolve or die. A difficulty here is the seductive 
notion of a "free" system that seems to be the answer to its own 
problems.  The error, in my opinion, is that no system is context-free.  
We each must deal with our environment on its terms.

>Thus, a Borg may be transhuman, but it is not extropic. Nor can
>luddites be extropic.
>  
>
The Borg of Star Trek are anti-extropic because they are a caricature of 
conformity, leading to stagnation.  [By the way, that is a good example 
of why I say that extropy encompasses transhumanism, rather than the 
other way around.]  However, there are theories of "hive-mind" which may 
be very effective both at the subjective level of the individual cells 
and at the higher level of the superorganism.

>Thus, the principles clearly place extropy in one quadrant of a
>political landscape, with technological progress being one axis, and
>degree of centralization being the other. 
>
I generally agree with you here, within the limits of the given context, 
but again, I never suggested extropian thinking was apolitical, but 
rather transpolitical.

- Jef
http://www.jefallbright.net