[extropy-chat] Gay marriage in Spain, a world of change

[Gina Miller]

Evan wrote "Myself, I have gay friends and treat them no differently than any of my other friends." 

I've seen this strategy used before. I know gay people so this provides me the authority to decide what is right for them. But you know what would have been better? I am a gay person.....  now that would have given genuine power to the rest of your statements! How about letting the gay person decide for themselves! 

It always blows my mind how fascinated straight people are with the gay's private life. Do we discuss with straight folks what they do behind closed doors? No. But if we did, I bet you would be shocked to find out what they do! For some reason it is recognized that it is none of our business............. we should have the same respect for everybody. 

Evan wrote "Homosexuality is not NORMAL. That doesn't mean it is evil or terrible or anything of the sort. It is simply not 
normal."

What this "Normal" reference really comes down to is numbers, statistics. Since heterosexuality appears to be the majority (and I say appears, because not everyone is explicit about their sexual experiences - I don't think I have to explain why) it some how empowers some to believe that dominance equals superior knowledge on the subject - or even rightness. What if it was the other way around? What if your heterosexuality was the minority - how would you explain away why you are attracted to the opposite sex? How would it feel having to justify what just comes natural to you? And that you must always refer to your personal sexual activity when trying to just live your life and obtain equal societal rights?

Note: we here are a group of people who are striving for change, for progress. The future that I envision for myself at least for the time being is not the future that the majority of the mainstream populous would partake of (cryonics, nanotech, A.I.). This is okay, those who do not want to apply future advancements to their lives, are not required to do so. I would not force the rest of society to subscribe to my own lifestyle. I accept this difference and only want the option to be able to choose differently for myself. I shouldn't force them, and they shouldn't force me - we should have a choice. By accepting and allowing differences for others, the allowance of my own choices increases. This is imperative, for people to coexist even though they may have different belief systems. We need to be consistent. 

Gina "Nanogirl" Miller
Nanotechnology Industries
http://www.nanoindustries.com
Personal: http://www.nanogirl.com/index2.html
Foresight Senior Associate http://www.foresight.org
Nanotechnology Advisor Extropy Institute  http://www.extropy.org
3D/Animation http://www.nanogirl.com/museumfuture/index.htm
Email: nanogirl at halcyon.com
"Nanotechnology: Solutions for the future."


Original Message ----- 
  From: Evan Hamlin 



  I live in Madrid, Spain so this post obviously hits close to home. 
  Personally, I can live with civil unions between homosexuals. I accept the 
  fact that society is beginning to view homosexuality with a degree of 
  normalicy that would have nauseated our forefathers. Myself, I have gay 
  friends and treat them no differently than any of my other friends. Hell I 
  even go down to Chueca (Madrid's gay district, what an insane place) to 
  party from time to time. However, I do not believe that gay unions should be 
  made equal to the union between a man and woman; the only kind of union 
  which makes sense in the eyes of nature, and even God for that matter 
  (though that matters little to me, being non-religious). To put gay 
  marriages on the same level as heterosexual marriages is to declare that our 
  society views homosexuality as being as normal as heterosexuality, which 
  makes no sense in the natural order of mankind or all other animals. To say 
  that it has existed for thousands of years doesn't validate it either. I'm 
  sure dendrophelia has also existed for many years, but does that mean we 
  should allow a man and a tree to marry? I hasten to admit that my example is 
  extreme, but everyone has become so wrapped up in their politically 
  correctness to admit the obvious: Homosexuality is not NORMAL. That doesn't 
  mean it is evil or terrible or anything of the sort. It is simply not 
  normal. And to pass laws making it so seems to me to be a step in the wrong 
  direction.

  Perhaps I am being harsh, but I think people need to step back and 
  reevaluate the situation.

  -Evan
  "The trouble with normal is that it only gets worse." -Bruce Cockburn


  -------------------Original Message-----------------------------
  Comment: Viva Zapatero!
  Civilrights.org<http://www.civilrights.org/issues/glbt/details.cfm?id=33631>:
  The church has branded the law, a pet project of Socialist Prime Minister
  Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, as an unprecedented threat to Christian
  civilization [!!!].
  Concord 
  Monitor<http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050719/REPOSITORY/507190316/1037/NEWS04>:
  Although numerous countries today recognize some form of same-sex
  partnership, the Spanish law goes beyond most because it eliminates all
  legal distinction between heterosexual and homosexual marriages. A gay
  married couple has all the same rights as a straight married couple,
  including the right to adopt children. A similar law exists in the
  Netherlands, and one is pending in Canada.
  Zapatero says the law will help transform Spain into a new and "decent
  society."His agenda also includes plans to liberalize divorce, abortion and
  stem-cell research. But the church is incensed, saying the very definition
  of family is being destroyed.
  Some of the opponents of gay marriage said they don't mind legislation
  recognizing civil unions for homosexuals. They draw the line, however, at
  giving it a status equivalent to the marriage of man and woman.
  The issue has roiled debate in a number of countries, including the United
  States. The Bush administration is promising to fight the kind of same-sex
  unions that a number of jurisdictions have enacted.

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