[extropy-chat] Why I am No Longer a Libertarian Either...

The Avantguardian avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 26 05:52:59 UTC 2005



--- Mike Lorrey <mlorrey at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Yes, the distribution of wealth in the U.S. has
> gotten
> > out of hand. I think that it started during the
> 1980's
> > when "mergers and aquisitions" came into vogue as
> way
> > for corporations to avoid paying their taxes. I
> don't
> > know how to change it though.
 
> It is interesting that you say this, because I
> wonder how it is that
> the stockholders would elect a board of directors
> who would pay a
> chairman or CEO more than they were worth, rather
> than putting that
> money into dividends, R&D, etc.

Because suckers can own stock to and worth is a matter
of imperfect perception. What is something's worth if
not what, on average, someone would be willing to pay
for something. Is a name brand really worth twice as
much as a generic? Why should a CEO of a company make
100,000 times what the mid-level manager with an MBA
makes? Just because he had the audacity to ask such an
outrageous salary of the board of directors? The BOD
gave the CEO that salary because thats what the CEO at
the competing company makes. The CEO argubly
contributes the least to the productivity of a
company, he is just the face that the BOD sees. Not so
much for the owner-CEOs like Gates and Branson but the
"professional" CEOs that hop around from company to
company looking for the next zero on their bank
account, those guys are clue-less. They know how to
schmooze, make excuses, do some creative accounting,
and fire people and that's about it. 
 
> > Where is there where the rich don't make the
> rules? I
> > don't believe any laws are explicitly for the
> purpose
> > of screwing the poor. 
> 
> Government is clearly a system for screwing the
> poor.

Yes, but it is not supposed to be. Where in "establish
justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the
common defense, and secure the blessings of liberty"
is there any mention of screwing the poor? If it has
become a system for screwing the poor, it is only
because we either lack the clarity of our forefathers
or delibrately thwart their vision, all the while
paying lip service to their memories. 

> The Kelo
> decisions expansion of eminent domain, for instance,
> is clearly biased
> in favor of reducing the costs to rich developers at
> the expense of
> poor and middle class homeowners. Taking a persons
> home (which is
> typically the only if not the largest single
> investment most people
> have in their lives) for its assessed value rather
> than its market
> value is a scam, pure and simple, to tax the poor
> and middle class. The
> difference between assessed and market values is a
> scam produced so
> that governments can take your property for less
> than it is worth, and
> now that Kelo has been decided, those governments
> can give it to anyone
> who promises more taxes or jobs to the government
> that takes it and
> gives it to the promiser. Eminent domain was bad
> enough before Kelo,
> now it's one step away for reinstituting feudalism.

I had never heard of Kelo before but that sounds as
horrible as the "whistle-blower" clauses in the USA
PATRIOT Act. How did the legislature get so out of
hand?
 
> > Take away every politician,
> > judge, lawyer, and policeman and I think that the
> > unregulated free market would STILL try to take
> the
> > poor's last penny. 
> 
> Nope. Government protects the rich and powerful
> against the market. The
> rich are free in a free market to TRY to take the
> poor's last penny,
> but without government, they have no way to enforce
> such a goal, any
> more than the masses can take what the rich already
> have.

But Mike, without government, the rich ARE the
government. Before the King came, the Feudal Lords
still screwed their peasants. After the King came, at
least the Feudal Lords got screwed too albeit the
peasants got screwed by both. Hell I am glad Paris
Hilton has to worry about paying her taxes, because if
not for that, she wouldn't have to worry about paying
for anything, especially DVDs of herself. ;)

The Avantguardian 
is 
Stuart LaForge
alt email: stuart"AT"ucla.edu

"The surest sign of intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't attempted to contact us." 
-Bill Watterson

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