[extropy-chat] Why I am No Longer a Libertarian Either...

[Mike Lorrey]

--- The Avantguardian <avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- Mike Lorrey <mlorrey at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > It is interesting that you say this, because I wonder how it is
that
> > the stockholders would elect a board of directors who would pay a
> > chairman or CEO more than they were worth, rather than putting that
> > money into dividends, R&D, etc.
> 
> Because suckers can own stock to and worth is a matter
> of imperfect perception. What is something's worth if
> not what, on average, someone would be willing to pay
> for something. Is a name brand really worth twice as
> much as a generic? 

Of course it is.

> Why should a CEO of a company make
> 100,000 times what the mid-level manager with an MBA
> makes? Just because he had the audacity to ask such an
> outrageous salary of the board of directors? The BOD
> gave the CEO that salary because thats what the CEO at
> the competing company makes. 

And how did that competing company CEO get his pay? You are stuck in
another chicken-egg paradox here Stuart that is a result of your
ingrained prejudices and not the facts. The market always finds proper
value. Claims that Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer isn't worth what they
are paid, or Jobs, or any other highly paid CEO are based on
puritanical protestant prejudices against ostentatiousness and
inaccurate memes that claim that one man is worth any other.

Any economist can tell you that no two workers are worth the same pay
for the same job, and there is no market rule limiting CEO pay as a
proportion of avg worker pay. Workers at all levels get paid what they
are worth, with few exceptions (typically when government and unions
enforce non-market pay scales).

> The CEO argubly
> contributes the least to the productivity of a
> company, he is just the face that the BOD sees. Not so
> much for the owner-CEOs like Gates and Branson but the
> "professional" CEOs that hop around from company to
> company looking for the next zero on their bank
> account, those guys are clue-less. They know how to
> schmooze, make excuses, do some creative accounting,
> and fire people and that's about it. 

Then why aren't you one of them, if you know all that needs to be done?
The fact you aren't one of them proves your statement to be bullshit.

> > 
> > Government is clearly a system for screwing the
> > poor.
> 
> Yes, but it is not supposed to be. 

Says who? Some piece of paper? They stopped listening to that a long
time ago, and only cite it today when it serves their own benefit.

> Where in "establish
> justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the
> common defense, and secure the blessings of liberty"
> is there any mention of screwing the poor? If it has
> become a system for screwing the poor, it is only
> because we either lack the clarity of our forefathers
> or delibrately thwart their vision, all the while
> paying lip service to their memories. 

Because all those who claim to be defenders of liberty either are out
to defend their own liberty at the expense of others, or are too
chickenshit to recognise that the time for revolution has been here for
a while.

> 
> > The Kelo
> > decisions expansion of eminent domain, for instance,
> > is clearly biased
> > in favor of reducing the costs to rich developers at
> > the expense of
> > poor and middle class homeowners. Taking a persons
> > home (which is
> > typically the only if not the largest single
> > investment most people
> > have in their lives) for its assessed value rather
> > than its market
> > value is a scam, pure and simple, to tax the poor
> > and middle class. The
> > difference between assessed and market values is a
> > scam produced so
> > that governments can take your property for less
> > than it is worth, and
> > now that Kelo has been decided, those governments
> > can give it to anyone
> > who promises more taxes or jobs to the government
> > that takes it and
> > gives it to the promiser. Eminent domain was bad
> > enough before Kelo,
> > now it's one step away for reinstituting feudalism.
> 
> I had never heard of Kelo before but that sounds as
> horrible as the "whistle-blower" clauses in the USA
> PATRIOT Act. How did the legislature get so out of
> hand?

Google Kelo v. City of New London, which was issued by the SCOTUS a
little over a month ago or so. New London, CT, is seizing a whole
middle class neighborhood and giving it to developers who promise to
build higher value commerical and residential properties there that
will generate more jobs and tax revinues for the city. Justices Souter,
Breyer, Stevens, Ginsberg, and Kennedy, liberals all, voted in New
London's favor.

Fortunately for us, Souter and Breyer both own property in a state
where people are willing to take action. You've likely heard of the
move to build the "Lost Liberty Hotel" on the 8 acre site of Souters
farm house in Weare, NH. We also have found that Breyer owns 167 acres
in Plainfield, NH and are going to seek to build Constitution Park
there, putting the US and NH Constitutions in stone. Even more fun: it
appears both justices paid the same assessment firm to grossly
under-assess their properties (Souters home and land are only assessed
at $108k, significantly below average for his town and below market
value, which should be over $200k.) As these five justices have given
us permission to take their homes, we intend to do so, just as if
they'd put their couch on the curb with a "free" sign on it.

> > 
> > Nope. Government protects the rich and powerful
> > against the market. The
> > rich are free in a free market to TRY to take the
> > poor's last penny,
> > but without government, they have no way to enforce
> > such a goal, any
> > more than the masses can take what the rich already
> > have.
> 
> But Mike, without government, the rich ARE the
> government. Before the King came, the Feudal Lords
> still screwed their peasants. 

The King came as a conqueror, killing most fighting men at the Battle
of Hastings, and establishing his holy grail to rule, recognised by the
Church, and enforced by his superior firepower. The peasants were
disarmed of what arms they had, and slaved for the King as they had
slaved a little less slavishly for the viking kings before, and the
Saxon kings before that, and the Anglish kings before that, and the
Celtic kings before that, on back into the misty mists of history. The
idea that they could protest was anathema.

Today, any kid with a rifle can take out an asshole in government if he
has the gumption to do so. Enough people know their rights, but are
deluded by the media (like the Church of old did) into thinking they
are still free. The people who get screwed do so because they let
themselves get screwed.

Mike Lorrey
Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
                                      -William Pitt (1759-1806) 
Blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com

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