[extropy-chat] Why I am No Longer a Libertarian Either...

[Dan Clemmensen]

Samantha Atkins wrote:

>
> On Jul 25, 2005, at 5:55 PM, The Avantguardian wrote:
>
>>      Anyone can make it here in America, if they WANT
>> to.
>
>
> That's a nice little unfalsifiable assertion.

Hey, Guys, this is too general on both sides.

If you have some combination of qualities, you can make it. If you do 
not, you cannot.

Qualities that may enable you to make it:
determination
intelligence,
capital
friends
luck
etc.

Avantguardian makes a "the glass is half full" analysis: "anyone" is 
likely to have the right combination of qualities, and those who do not 
deserve their fate.

Samantha makes a "the glass is half empty" analysis (with respect to 
this problem: not as general attribute): There are a LOT of people who 
do not in fact have set of qualities that permit them to succeed.

I can find many examples in my own personal experience to support both 
analyses. I think we should work together to build a bottom-up approach 
to this analysis, with specific exemplars rather than abstract 
populations. We have Korean emigrants who are now millionaires, and we 
have bright black ghetto-born guys who are sentenced to life in prison. 
Stereotypes. We also have black ghetto kids who make it big time, and 
Korean emigrants who die in poverty. Not stereotypes, but real people.

Challenge to Avantguardian: Is there anything society can or should do 
to mitigate the obstacles facing people who don't have the right 
qualities to succeed?

Challenge to Samantha: how can we help those who are not succeeding 
without stifling initiative?