[extropy-chat] CHINA: Threat proponents not chicken littles...
Samantha Atkins
sjatkins at mac.com
Fri Jun 10 17:43:05 UTC 2005
Actually I apologize. It is not that easy to find such links. I was
thinking of some items (iirc) that we have sold like various military
helicopters, guidance systems, supercomputers, satellite technology
and so on. We have also done some joint military exercises. But
mostly Mike is right that we haven't stocked their major military
hardware. There does seem to be a flow of arms from US to Israel to
China through back channels. But most of the hardware they don't
build themselves seems to source from Russia.
- s
On Jun 10, 2005, at 10:13 AM, Samantha Atkins wrote:
> It is easy enough to find if you wish. I will not spoon feed you.
> On Jun 10, 2005, at 8:30 AM, Mike Lorrey wrote:
>
>
>> "we helped them"? Could you provide details. Last I checked they
>> weren't flying F-16s....
>>
>> --- Samantha Atkins <sjatkins at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> IIRC we helped them build more than a little of that military
>>> capacity so I seriously doubt these claims of surprise. IMHO, the
>>> only "surprise" is that they may be a bit harder to keep under our
>>> thumb than anticipated.
>>>
>>> - s
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2005, at 9:07 AM, Mike Lorrey wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050609-120336-4092r.htm
>>>>
>>>> Analysts missed Chinese buildup
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> By Bill Gertz
>>>> THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A highly classified intelligence report produced for the new
>>>>
>>>>
>>> director
>>>
>>>
>>>> of national intelligence concludes that U.S. spy agencies failed to
>>>> recognize several key military developments in China in the past
>>>> decade, The Washington Times has learned.
>>>> The report was created by several current and former
>>>>
>>>>
>>> intelligence
>>>
>>>
>>>> officials and concludes that U.S. agencies missed more than a dozen
>>>> Chinese military developments, according to officials familiar with
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> the
>>>> report.
>>>> The report blames excessive secrecy on China's part for the
>>>> failures, but critics say intelligence specialists are to blame for
>>>> playing down or dismissing evidence of growing Chinese military
>>>> capabilities.
>>>> The report comes as the Bush administration appears to have
>>>>
>>>>
>>> become
>>>
>>>
>>>> more critical of China's military buildup.
>>>> Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said in Singapore over the
>>>> weekend that China has hidden its defense spending and is expanding
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> its
>>>> missile forces despite facing no threats. Secretary of State
>>>> Condoleezza Rice also expressed worries this week about China's
>>>> expanding military capabilities.
>>>> Among the failures highlighted in the study are:
>>>> •China's development of a new long-range cruise missile.
>>>> •The deployment of a new warship equipped with a stolen Chinese
>>>> version of the U.S. Aegis battle management technology.
>>>> •Deployment of a new attack submarine known as the Yuan class
>>>>
>>>>
>>> that
>>>
>>>
>>>> was missed by U.S. intelligence until photos of the submarine
>>>>
>>>>
>>> appeared
>>>
>>>
>>>> on the Internet.
>>>> •Development of precision-guided munitions, including new
>>>> air-to-ground missiles and new, more accurate warheads.
>>>> •China's development of surface-to-surface missiles for
>>>>
>>>>
>>> targeting
>>>
>>>
>>>> U.S. aircraft carrier battle groups.
>>>> •The importation of advanced weaponry, including Russian
>>>> submarines, warships and fighter-bombers.
>>>> According to officials familiar with the intelligence report,
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> word "surprise" is used more than a dozen times to describe U.S.
>>>> failures to anticipate or discover Chinese arms development.
>>>> Many of the missed military developments will be contained in
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pentagon's annual report to Congress on the Chinese military, which
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> was
>>>> due out March 1 but delayed by interagency disputes over its
>>>>
>>>>
>>> contents.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Critics of the study say the report unfairly blames
>>>>
>>>>
>>> intelligence
>>>
>>>
>>>> collectors for not gathering solid information on the Chinese
>>>>
>>>>
>>> military
>>>
>>>
>>>> and for failing to plant agents in the communist government.
>>>> Instead, these officials said, the report looks like a bid to
>>>> exonerate analysts within the close-knit fraternity of government
>>>> China
>>>> specialists, who for the past 10 years dismissed or played down
>>>> intelligence showing that Beijing was engaged in a major military
>>>> buildup.
>>>> "This report conceals the efforts of dissenting analysts [in
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> intelligence community] who argued that China was a threat," one
>>>> official said, adding that covering up the failure of intelligence
>>>> analysts on China would prevent a major reorganization of the
>>>>
>>>>
>>> system.
>>>
>>>
>>>> A former U.S. official said the report should help expose a
>>>> "self-selected group" of specialists who fooled the U.S. government
>>>>
>>>>
>>> on
>>>
>>>
>>>> China for 10 years.
>>>> "This group's desire to have good relations with China has
>>>> prevented them from highlighting how little they know and
>>>>
>>>>
>>> suppressing
>>>
>>>
>>>> occasional evidence that China views the United States as its main
>>>> enemy."
>>>> The report has been sent to Thomas Fingar, a longtime
>>>>
>>>>
>>> intelligence
>>>
>>>
>>>> analyst on China who was recently appointed by John D. Negroponte,
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> new director of national intelligence, as his office's top
>>>> intelligence
>>>> analyst.
>>>> Mr. Negroponte has ordered a series of top-to-bottom reviews of
>>>> U.S. intelligence capabilities in the aftermath of the critical
>>>>
>>>>
>>> report
>>>
>>>
>>>> by the presidential commission headed by Judge Laurence Silberman
>>>>
>>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>
>>>> former Sen. Charles Robb, Virginia Democrat.
>>>> According to the officials, the study was produced by a team of
>>>> analysts for the intelligence contractor Centra Technologies.
>>>> Spokesmen for the CIA and Mr. Negroponte declined to comment.
>>>> Its main author is Robert Suettinger, a National Security
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Council
>>>
>>>
>>>> staff member for China during the Clinton administration and the
>>>>
>>>>
>>> U.S.
>>>
>>>
>>>> intelligence community's top China analyst until 1998. Mr.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Suettinger
>>>
>>>
>>>> is traveling outside the country and could not be reached for
>>>>
>>>>
>>> comment,
>>>
>>>
>>>> a spokesman said.
>>>> John Culver, a longtime CIA analyst on Asia, was the co-author.
>>>> Among those who took part in the study were former Defense
>>>> Intelligence Agency analyst Lonnie Henley, who critics say was
>>>>
>>>>
>>> among
>>>
>>>
>>>> those who in the past had dismissed concerns about China's military
>>>>
>>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>>
>>>> the past 10 years.
>>>> Also participating in the study was John F. Corbett, a former
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Army
>>>
>>>
>>>> intelligence analyst and attache who was a China policy-maker at
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pentagon during the Clinton administration.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike Lorrey
>>>> Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
>>>> "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
>>>> It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
>>>> -William Pitt (1759-1806)
>>>> Blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Lorrey
>> Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
>> "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
>> It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
>> -William Pitt (1759-1806)
>> Blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Discover Yahoo!
>> Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
>> Check it out!
>> http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
>>
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