[extropy-chat] Re: Iraq and legality again

[Dirk Bruere]

The Avantguardian wrote:

>--- Samantha Atkins <sjatkins at mac.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Tell it to the Russians after Afghanistan.  What is
>>our goal?  Of  
>>what does completion consist?  Killing until all
>>that fight the  
>>occupation are dead or imprisoned?  What?
>>    
>>
>
>I agree with you that Iraq has the pontential to
>become our Afghanistan or another Vietnam. Time is not
>on our side in this venture. An enlightened strategy
>would consist of a concise set of military objectives
>that ended the conflict quickly and decisively without
>a minimal amount of lives lost on either side and
>minimal collateral damage. Killing ALL the insurgents
>is definately NOT the answer. Flushing out the leaders
>of the insurgents and killing them and then offering
>to buy all the rest of the insurgents' weapons might
>be. Such is hard to tell. I am not the field
>commander. I don't have access to his on the ground
>intel nor do I have a reliable assessment of the
>disposition of the enemy's forces. 
>  
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4623507.stm
"US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld confirms media reports that US 
officials have been having talks with Iraqi rebels"
That follows on from Bush's "withdrawal with honor" speech a few days ago.
More deja vu...

For a quote of what it's like on the ground, a report from 
sci.military.moderated:

 Marine Sgt. Garrett A. Barton, now based at Camp Lejeune, N.C.,
says Marines need more realistic training, have equipment that's too
heavy, and need better-penetrating armaments, such as armor-piercing
rounds, to use against Islamist car bombers.

"A firefight in a MOUT environment against drugged-up insurgents is not
the place to discover Pfc. Smith needs to work on his shoulder pressure
and manipulation of the [testing and evaluation]. This is life and
death. The average grunt is swamped with weight," he said. Marines
carry gear and ammunition that include flak jackets, Kevlar helmets,
two ceramic plates, M-16s with seven magazines, grenades, radios,
water, chow, night-vision equipment and more. Ounces equal pounds, and
pounds equal pain. This is not good when Marines need to move quickly
in a combat situation, and the extreme weight reduces their fluidity.
As for weapons, "the M-16 is prone to jams. I can personally attest
that I kept my weapon properly cleaned and lubed yet within ten minutes
I had two jams ... in Al Fallujah. The M-16 round also is too fast, too
small and too stabilized. It cannot compete with the 7.62 fired by
Warsaw Pact weapons such as AK-47s. He has never seen armor-piercing
rounds for his M-240G medium machine gun. Our current enemies like to
use [car bombs]. Personally, I would feel more comfortable shooting at
a vehicle laden with explosives if I had armor-piercing rounds. Troops
also need more powerful hand grenades. The insurgents in Iraq like to
inject themselves with adrenaline. The casualty radius of our current
grenades is insufficient. Sgt. Barton concluded his "grunt wish list,"
which was sent to the Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory in Quantico,
Va., saying he tried not to be too critical, knowing current resources
are limited. But he noted: "Any improvement is a big step in our
capabilities."

See Vietnam era criticism of M16 (M4) versus AK47 for more deja vu and 
lessons not learned..

-- 
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org



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