Meta: Too far Re: [extropy-chat] Re: Iraq and legality again

[Brett Paatsch]

>> Samantha Atkins wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I find many things objectionable.  Hubert spoke from his heart.   
>>> I  for one understand how he feels.
>>>
>>
>> I think I do too. But we are not mere brutes whose feelings are
>> all that matters, we are homo sapiens. It doesn't take heaps of  
>> imagination to understand a hound howling because it has a thorn
>> in its paw. Its just that the howling is a poor means of  
>> communication.
> 
> Well you watch for a time to say your piece in a balanced way. 
> You perceive the conversation being more and more unbalanced.
> That gets frustrating. 

I know what you mean. I'm sure Hubert does too. 

> Occasionally one or another such watcher speaks out in  
> frustration and anger.  Instead of hearing the cause the frustration  
> and anger is reacted to and we generally learn nothing. 

Yes.

> Everyone is justified and no one learns.

No everyone isn't justified. And some do learn even in poorer 
learning environments but certainly richer learning environments
are worth striving for, and they are the ones in which courtesy
and respect are shown and strong language is reserved until its
use is appropriate as well it might be, in my opinion, as a part
of a full repertoire of communication tools. 

Still, one abuses the tools and spoils the communication if one
uses the strong language too readily. And one likely hits ones
own credibility and standing in the community. 
 
>>
>>> If it does not need a response then why are you raising it up and   
>>> suggesting a tally?
>>>
>>
>> That was poor wording. I should not have said that. I don't want
>> a tally. I want to work over issues with people who want to work
>> them over.
> 
> OK.
> 
>>
>>> Personally I am letting a lot ride because it is not worth my  
>>> energy  and time to tease apart the in my opinion ridiculous  
>>> justifications  for the war or its continuance.
>>>
>>
>> That is fair enough. Your time is yours.
>>
>>> Nor is it worth my time to  continuously check Mike as he in my  
>>> opinion often gives  libertarianism a bad name.
>>>
>>
>> After the "as" and with the "often" that is not fair in my opinion and
>> its flamebait to Mike.
>>
> 
> That is my considered opinion as stated and there is nothing unfair  
> in saying so. 

In that case, if it is your considered opinion, I will step back on the
point and it is a matter for you and Mike. 

> I am certainly not alone among libertarians in having  
> this opinion.   That his sig makes prominent his party affiliation  
> leaves the inference that he speaks as a libertarian on the issues.   
> As many of his positions, as he has pointed out, differ from that of  
> many libertarians it is no great stretch to what I said above.

As a reader and as someone generally interested in your views I 
don't want to have to stretch to find ways to agree with your
disapproval of another poster. If I have to stretch to understand
what you are saying in more constructive, more problem-solving
oriented pursuits, then that is another matter.   
 
>>> Nor is it worth my time to engage in  legalistic pissing contests  
>>> devoid of any real understanding or wisdom.
>>>
>>
>> Okay. So don't. But please be fair about it, if you have no real  
>> interest
>> then stay out until you do have an interest as you can only add heat
>> not light. Not because you couldn't add light if you did care but  
>> because
>> you don't care.
> 
> I said no such thing.  I care very much.  I don't care for pseudo- 
> intellectual bullshit that pretends to be reasoned discourse.

I don't care for pseudo-intellectual bullshit or pretense either. 

But intelligent discourse is worthy and honest discourse. And,
I hope you will agree, discourse about the use of law and of the
legal structures that both support and constrict us is not mere
legalistic naval gazing and grandstanding. 

We need to be able to understand the law and cite the law in
order to teach each other the law. And I want to learn it.

----

Perhaps, unless Hubert wants right of reply, this Meta has gone
past its usefulness and we might relabel future posts to reflect
content?

Regards,
Brett Paatsch