[extropy-chat] Re: Meta: Too far

[Joseph Bloch]

Damien Broderick wrote:

> At 02:39 PM 6/29/2005 -0700, Stuart wrote:
>
>
> Agreed, this is a very difficult and troubling topic. An oath must not 
> be put aside recklessly or easily. On the other hand, it is obvious 
> that those in the Iraq army under Saddam also must have sworn such 
> oaths, as must the German military during the Second World War. 
> Indeed, under certain circumstances there is a clear moral duty not to 
> obey immoral orders. This has been apparent at least since the 
> Nuremberg trials. Consider:
>
> http://www.crisispapers.org/texts/UCMJ.htm
>
> Damien Broderick


Actually, the precedent set at Nuremberg was that one could not obey 
_illegal_ orders. "Morality" being such a nebulous and subjective thing, 
after all. And indeed, there are examples of even SS soldiers refusing 
to participate in atrocities and being reassigned to other duties 
immediately, lest the courts become involved and the whole mess become 
open to public scrutiny. Indeed, it was that very fact that knocked the 
block out from underneath the "I would have been arrested and executed 
if I hadn't done as I was ordered" because, in fact, many people had 
refused and were not arrested for doing so.

Now, that being said, I think there is a WORLD of difference between 
forcing unarmed Communist party officials to dig their own graves for 
summary execution in 1943, and US Marines firing at Iraqi soldiers who 
are armed with machine guns, tanks, and RPGs (or terrorists armed with 
machine guns, suicide bomb-vests, and RPGs). And if any of my European 
(or any other, for that matter) friends cannot see that distinction, 
then I mourn for the loss of any sort of substantive communication 
between us.

Joseph

Enhance your body "beyond well" and your mind "beyond normal": 
http://www.humanenhancement.com
New Jersey Transhumanist Association: http://www.goldenfuture.net/njta
PostHumanity Rising: http://transhumanist.blogspot.com/ (updated 6/14/05)