[extropy-chat] Re: riots in France

[Jack Parkinson]

From: "John K Clark" <jonkc at att.net> said:
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Re: riots in France

>Yawn. I predict that at one time or another there will indeed be riots in
>the USA, and in every other country in the world. Big deal, riots are a 
>dime
>a dozen.  I am not impressed.

Presumably, you will be impressed when this directly degrades the quality of 
yours and your families lives... Meantime - enjoy that complacency!

>... I do not think
>it's a coincidence that nearly all of the world's very poorest countries 
>are
>Muslim despite having more than their far share of natural recourses.

Some of the richest countries are also Muslim. And some of the world's most 
populous.

>I humbly submit that fundamentalist Muslims (or Christians) are crazies.

Glad we have one point of agreement - but we can't fight their ignorance 
with our ignorance.

 Contented citizens with full bellies NEVER man the barricades.

>Quite true and rather fortunate, if the richest and most productive and
>powerful elements in society rioted it would be far more disruptive.

And far more crazy... Poverty is the root cause of discontent.

> How many times have you bought something at a
> Big Box store and said to yourself, I don't know
> how they can make and sell this item so cheaply?

>Never, I just figured its cheap because its made in a third world sweat
>shop, and that doesn't bother me one tinny tiny bit. Suppose I run such a
>place making shirts and pay my 1000 workers 7 cents an hour. Am I a
>villain? I don't think so. My workers are delighted because the alternative
>to 7 cents an hour is zero cents an hour, I am delighted because I am 
>making
>a very nice profit, and Wal-Mart customers are delighted because they get a
>nice shirt at a reasonable price.

Spoilt rich kids always praise their own benevolence when they hand out 
their loose change. The hot news is: No one is ever delighted at earning 7 
cents an hour. They want a house with a manicured lawn, a membership of the 
golf club and an SUV. When they see someone like you buying and enjoying 
these little luxuries with the money they have earned you - they start 
thinking about torching cars and burning shops...


>Or would it be more moral of me to fire 99 workers out of 100 and pay the
>remaining ones 7$ an hour,

Yes...

>And yes, I do think it's a tragedy that somebody must live on 7 cents a
>hour, but the root of that tragedy is not some evil Wal-Mart conspiracy, 
>the
>root cause is that the world does not have enough wealth

There is plenty of wealth in the world. Basic needs for everyone could be 
met with a level of expenditure that is so low, it is unlikely to be 
noticed. Most international relief agencies estimate 25 billion US dollars 
as a enough to provide everyone with food, clean water and basic health 
care - right now. This sum is peanuts in the overall scheme of things - and 
would probably take off a lot of pressure from the western nations in the 
form of less illegal immigration, less hostility, less resentment, and less 
tendency to stir up militant action/terrorism. If you know that desperate 
people strap explosives to their bodies and blow up trains - best make sure 
they are not desperate in the first place.

>and the way to generate that wealth is the free market not grandiose 
>government schemes.

IF we had a real free market maybe. I don't think this free market creature 
does exists and even doubt that it really can exist... Current 'free 
markets' are simply manipulated, tightly controlled strategies to put the 
power and profits into corporate HQ's in the US and Europe.

>Just after WW2 Japan and India were about equally poor, India initiated
>subsidies and price controls and nationalized companies all in the name of
>helping the poor; meanwhile Japan embraced capitalism. Today Japan is 
>filthy
>rich and India still dirt poor.

A bit simplistic to say the least. Japan is in deep economic trouble now 
despite being at the economic forefront a generation ago. India is riding an 
economic boom which is seeing a burgeoning, affluent middle class and a 
sophisticated, well-trained, and increasingly high-tech work-force. China is 
likely to take the top spot as world number 1 economy within the next ten 
years - India will not be far behind. Between them, these two countries will 
have about 35-40% of the worlds population, and can dominate world trade. 
These are the next two super-powers...

>So forgive me if I don't get outraged when you talk about how Wal-Mart is 
>exploiting workers in >poor countries.
   John K Clark

Yes, I'll forgive you John. But not everyone is such a nice guy...

Jack Parkinson