[extropy-chat] Qualia Bet.

[gts]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:36:30 -0500, John K Clark <jonkc at att.net> wrote:

> "gts" <gts_2000 at yahoo.com>
>
>>  an alternative view is that of epiphenomenalism. According
>>  to this view,  qualia are irrelevant to behavior.
>
> I think epiphenomenalism is just playing with words, it's one of those  
> ideas that's so bad...

Most philosophers in the field try to avoid epiphenomenalism because it  
seems so counter-intuitive, but actually there are reasons and evidence to  
support it. For example experiments have shown that people pull their  
hands away from intense heat, such as that from a hot stove, a fraction of  
a second before they become aware of the heat qualia.

The test subject will claim, after the fact, that he pulled his hand away  
"because the stove was hot" (because his behavior was driven by his  
qualia) but his actions tell a different story. In fact his behavior was a  
direct response to the stimulus and the quale was merely an epiphenomenon.  
It is at least conceivable that all supposedly qualia-driven behaviors  
work the same way.

>> If the only function of evolution is perpetuation of genes, there is  
>> some justification for wondering why it did not produce mindless  
>> zombies.
>
> Some justification?  I know with complete certainty that Evolution did
> manage to produce at least one entity that was conscious, so I'd say  
> that is one hell of a lot more than "some justification", it completely  
> closes the book on the possibility of intelligent but unconscious  
> zombies.

Seems to me that the fact that evolution produced aware organisms capable  
of experiencing qualia does not "completely close the book" on the  
possibility that it might have done otherwise. Evolution might have  
produced a lot of things.

> Because of this I am as certain as anything I know that if you detect  
> intelligence
> you're detecting consciousness too.

I really like your idea here; it supports my other arguments in favor of  
pan-psychism. However I am reluctant to say I am "as certain as anything"  
about this subject of consciousness and qualia.

If I am certain of anything, it is that these questions are among the most  
difficult of all questions in science and philosophy.

-gts