[extropy-chat] Qualia Bet.

[gts]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:15:37 -0500, Brent Allsop <allsop at extropy.org>  
wrote:

>> What you really mean is that direct knowledge of phenomenal properties
>> (the actual first-hand experience of qualia) cannot be obtained via
>> abstract science about causes and effects.
>
> Yes, this is a great way of putting it.  I'll have to try to learn from  
> your example and use more of these words in this way more often.
>
> Thanks!

You're welcome!

> It's very nice - for a change - not to be the only one really
> arguing for this position!

Consider the consequences. We might be burned at the stake. :)

One consequence, especially if your "effing" idea works out as you hope,  
is that people might be forced to concede that the seemingly dualistic  
nature of objective vs subjective reality for humans is not unique to  
humans but is true for all things in the world, living or dead. This is  
not an idea foreign to philosophy, but true "effing" would make it a  
scientific fact.

As you say:

> And once we can share qualia via effing and know reliably and perfectly
> (well, for all practical purposes anyway) of their causal physical
> correlates and so on - will this not be considered "objective"  
> knowledge?  I
> like to think so.

Yep, that's subjective knowledge becoming objective knowledge.

-gts