[extropy-chat] Re: Spirits

[Acy Stapp]

The phenomenal knowledge the Mary is experiencing is objective
knowledge about her internal brain states which she has been unable to
experience prior to her release. She can not know *everything* about
red because her conscious learning apparatus is unable to stuff
information into the perceptual apparatus in a manner that replicates
actual color vision. The feedback circuits which enable learning and
introspection don't reach far enough down to affect visual perception
so profoundly as to enable her to imagine the experience of red. I
assert that qualia are merely tokens to enable conscious cognition
about subconscious processes.

Acy

On 11/30/05, gts <gts_2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:36:10 -0500, John K Clark <jonkc at att.net> wrote:
>
> >>> No. She already knew that. Mary knew everything possible about every
> >>> related branch of science, then stepped into the world of color and
> >>> learned something new.
> >
> > I don't really understand where this conversation is going. Do you
> > expect me to say it's imposable to experience new things?
>
> The Mary argument is a standard argument for the existence of qualia. Some
> people deny qualia represent new knowledge. The point is to highlight the
> fact that phenomenal knowledge exists, separate and distinct from what we
> normally mean by scientific or objective knowledge.
>
> One can argue that phenomenal knowledge does not exist, but if it does
> exist then it seems that the part of the brain that acquires it works more
> like camera film than a microschip. As I wrote previously,  the film sees
> the color, the chip talks about it.
>
> That "brain-film" is in my view aware, and in a manner analogous to real
> camera film. I think the two are  equivalent, though of course
> "brain-film" is more complex. As you know I think it makes sense to say
> mechanical cameras are aware, though they are not self-aware and not
> conscious and not alive.
>
>
> -gts
>
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