[extropy-chat] Way, way, way over the edge...

[Darin Sunley]

> *what* precisely is the Biblical basis for objecting to homosexuals?  (If it
> isn't too much trouble.)

As one of the very very few people in North America familiar with both
transhumanism, extropianism, and Christian Evangelicalism, I may be
able to help with this question. :)

There are three main areas in the Bible that build a case against
homosexuality. The first and arguably most important area is the
specific commands in the Old Testament, which are, per hypothesis, the
direct commands of an SI, which say that there is something seriously
wrong with homosexuality. It doesn't say exactly what, but it makes it
very clear that there is a problem with this sort of behavior. [As a
side note, other seemingly arbitrary command of God from this portion
of Scripture, like the Jewish dietary laws, have been found by modern
science to be, by and large, really good advice. So they might be
worth looking into.]

The second is, of course, the Apostle Paul. Now it's important to
remember that the homosexuals Paul was writing about are very
different from modern homosexuality. The homosexuals Paul was
referring to were, by and large, male temple prostitutes in the local
non-Christian religions. Temple prostitution: the use of sex
[homosexual and hetero] as an element of the actual act of worship was
very VERY common in the ancient world, and was diametrically opposed
from the Jewish and early-Christian understanding of the role of sex
in the universe. The Old Testament speaks extensively on the bad
consequences that can come from worshipping in this manner.

The best argument against homosexuality in it's modern form is no more
and no less than the same argument that exists against any kind of sex
occurring outside of marriage. Even secular sociologists will tell you
that when casual sex exists as a social institution, the stability of
families goes way down, and you get a whole host of social ills
accompanying that [STDs, victimization of prostitutes, associated
crime and narcotic use thereof, etc].

Many religions believe that something cosmically significant occurs
between people's [souls / consciousnesses / qualia] when they have
sex. A link is formed between those two people. When people have a
large number of sexual [hetero or homo] partners serially [or
simultaneously, it doesn't matter] , what they are doing is repeatedly
forming and dissolving this link. This invariably damages the ability
of the person to form intimate relationships down the road.

Now Christians take this one step further and argue that there is a
genuine qualitative difference between the way this link occurs in a
heterosexual coupling or a homosexual coupling. Christians would argue
that, because the souls in a homosexual relationship are of the same
gender, the link does not form properly, if it can form at all, and
that this will also cause damage to the person's ability to form and
maintain intimate relationships down the road.

At this point it's important to make two things clear.

First: Fred Phelps is a whackjob of the highest order. He operates his
"church" as a tightly bound, highly authoritarian cult consisting
mostly of his extended family. His views have been disowned by even
the most conservative Christian denominations in North America. The
man protested the funeral of those miners who died in the mine
explosion in West Virginia for no other apparent reason then that they
were West Virginians [there may be some kind of unspoken steroetype
regarding West Virginians and homosexuality, but this was not made
clear in any of his materials]. I honestly wish I was making this up!
He brings shame and disgrace to the name of the God he claims to
worship. By his behavior he turns countless people away from the
Gospel message that might otherwise be at least willing to listen, and
he will have to give an account of his behavior on Judgement Day.

Second: As regards the eternal destinty of homosexuals, their
homosexuality is literally the least of their sins. All of us,
including Christians, every day, break all ten of the Ten
Commandments. We fail to put the God who made us first in our lives
[breaking the First Commandment] , we tell white lies [breaking the
Ninth Commandment], we look with lust at others [committing adultery
in our hearts according to Jesus, therefore breaking the seventh
Commandment.] Christians believe that God's standard, when He judges
us on Judgement Day is not going to be "Were you an OK person?" or
"Were you better then most people?". It's going to be "Were you
morally perfect." None of us can say that, so we're all in deep
trouble. We will be found guilty and be sentenced, quite reasonably,
to Hell. We commit crimes against God on an ongoing basic, and have no
way to pay the fine. The good news, the Gospel, is that God made a way
for us to be freed. Jesus paid our fine for us by voluntarily
sacrificing Himself on the Cross for us. If we turn from our sins and
trust in Him to save us from the justice we deserve on Judgement Day,
He will.

Whew. OK. That got a little preachy. I apologise. But it's still
important to say. Most people think they know what Christian
Fundamentalists believe, but there are a lot of confusions and
misconceptions. I know that message was very new to me when I first
heard it, and I'd been debating Christians in chatrooms all my life.
I'd just never heard it laid out that way before.


Darin Sunley
dsunley at gmail.com
dsunley at shaw.ca