[extropy-chat] "Dead Time" of the Brain.

[John K Clark]

"Heartland" <velvet977 at hotmail.com>

> The reason why people should care *deeply* about
> reaching the point of no > activity of their brain is
> because this is the point of no return and no  amount
> of restoration of brain structure can ever bring a
> person back to life.

So you say, but then you also say anesthesia is  equivalent to death, so
it's a little hard to see why anyone should take what you have to say
on this subject seriously.

> Minds are not information aka. pattern of brain structure, but a
> 4-dimensional object

These 4 dimensions must describe the location of something, it can only be
atoms, atoms that get completely recycled in my body every few weeks, atoms
that have no individuality but somehow magically manage to give this
remarkable quality to me. The only reason this atom rather than that atom is
part of my brain right now is because last week I got this Snickers candy
bar out of a vending machine rather than that Snickers bar, but you think
this mundane fact is the secret of life. I don't.

And you say mind is an object, well the brain is an object, but mind?
Happiness is not an object nor is sadness, rage is nor an object, nor is
fear or jealousy or love. Logic is not an object nor is memory or intuition,
but you insist mind is an object and that makes no sense, no sense at all.

Mind is what a brain does and what something does is not an object.

> Preservation of subjective experience is more important than preservation
> of personal memory that includes memory of "self"

So you think remembering being you yesterday is not a subjective experience
and that also makes not one particle of sense.

> Preservation of subjective experience is more important than preservation
> of personal memory that includes memory of "self"

Something in the future that remembers being you is the very definition of
survival; at least I'll be dammed if I can think of a better one.

> I don't expect anyone to fully imagine and internalize all this in a week

What are you talking about, it's not like it's very deep. Yours is the
conventional interpretation believed by every Tom Dick and Harry, but the
conventional interpretation is wrong. For example...

> A person can run only one instance of SE.

Why not?

This matter has come up before, about 5 years ago I proposed these thought
experiments to the list.
====
An exact duplicate of the earth, and its entire ecosystem, is created a
billion light years away. The duplicate world would need some sort of
feedback mechanism to keep the worlds in synchronization, non linear effects
would amplify tiny variations, even quantum fluctuations, into big
differences, but this is a thought experiment so who cares. In the first two
cases below the results would vary according to personalities, remember
there's a lot of illogic even in the best of us.

1) I know all about the duplicate world and you put a 44 magnum to my head
and tell me in ten seconds you will blow my brains out. Am I concerned?  You
bet I am because I know that your double is holding an identical gun to the
head of my double and making an identical threat.

2) I find out that for the first time since the Big Bang the worlds will
diverge, in 10 seconds you will put a bullet in my head but my double will
be spared, am I concerned? Yes, and angry as well, in times of intense
stress nobody is very logical. My double is no longer exact because I am
going through a traumatic experience and my double is not. I'd be looking at
that huge gun and wondering what it will be like when it goes off and if
death will really be instantaneous. I'd be wondering if my philosophy was
really as sound as I thought it was and I'd also be wondering why I get the
bullet and not my double and cursing the unfairness of it all.  My (semi)
double would be thinking "it's a shame about that other fellow but I'm glad
it's not me".

3) I know nothing about the duplicate world, a gun is at both our heads and
we both are convinced we're going to die. One gun goes off, making a hell of
a mess, but the other gun, for inexplicable reasons misfires. In this case
NOBODY died and except for undergoing a terrifying experience I am
completely unharmed. The real beauty part is that I don't even have to clean
up the mess.

The bottom line is we don't have thoughts and emotions, we are thoughts and
emotions, and the idea that the particular hardware that is rendering them
changes their meaning is as crazy as my computer making the meaning of your
post different from what it was on yours.

John K Clark      jonkc at att.net