[extropy-chat] Rational force?

Lee Corbin lcorbin at rawbw.com
Tue Dec 12 03:19:48 UTC 2006

Russell writes

> Lee ... wrote:
> > But there is no guarantee that south central LA will be reclaimed
> > to civilization simply by outlawing drugs.

> ("by legalizing drugs", I assume you meant?) 

Yes, thank you.

> > The National Guard needs to surround the entire area,
> > and drive all suspected gang members into concentration
> > camps and restore order.  Then one by one, those found
> > not guilty of belonging to gangs can be released. 

> Lee, I agree with much of what you say, and I certainly think
> treating terrorists as if they were soldiers of a civilized nation
> is wrong. If a man is found _after fair trial_ to be a terrorist,
> by all means let him be hanged forthwith. 


> But suspending due process of law for your own citizens isn't
> just more of the same idea - it's a completely different kind of
> thing, and far more dangerous.

It is indeed dangerous.  Life does not proceed without risks.
A governor of a state could declare a certain area to be a
"lawless disaster zone", and the district could be razed in
the manner I've suggested.  This wouldn't have to happen
more than once or twice before the message went out;
and the destruction of so many gangs would be worth it.

> > The alternative is to wait until slowly all of society looks the way it does there.

> I don't think that's the only alternative. I think there are better
> approaches. I think if: the drug laws were repealed,  the labor
> and business laws that make it illegal for large numbers of
> people to find work were relaxed enough so that everyone
> regardless of age, social status, academic background etc who
> wanted to earn an honest living could do so,  the ghastly tower
> blocks were demolished and the government got out of the
> housing business, existing laws against violent crime were enforced
> in a fair and unbiased manner, things would improve enough that
> the perceived need for concentration camps would disappear. 

Maybe.  And yes, if the will existed to implement my draconian approach,
then the will would certainly exist to try your step-by-small-step approach.
Either way, sadly, I'm afraid it's moot.

I'll just say that since your approach isn't being tried at all, I would 
be very happy if a sea-change occurred among the populace and
it lost its temper and did as I suggested above.  And to those who
say "it's better to let a thousand guilty men go free than harm an
innocent person", I refer them to the recidivism rates and just what
they mean to yet other innocent persons.

> If all the above is tried and found to be insufficient, then by all
> means bring up the idea of concentration camps again, but I
> don't think they should be advocated until that time.



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