[extropy-chat] Is the Golden Rule rational?

Jef Allbright jef at jefallbright.net
Tue Dec 12 16:38:21 UTC 2006

Thomas wrote: 
> On Dec 11, 2006, at 10:41 PM, Jef Allbright wrote: 
>> Thomas wrote:
>>> I wonder how an extropic Golden Rule
>>> would read.  I think its essence is
>>> equal justice.
>> Could you describe and/or provide some
>> examples of how "equal justice" might
>> work?  I'm aware of a great deal of
>> injustice in the world, but I suppose
>> I think of it as a symptom of more
>> fundamental problems, rather than as
>> a problem that could be solved in any 
>> direct way.
> I'm really not reaching for the unattainable here.  I didn't 
> appreciate having my case dismissed because I named the real 
> humans who wronged me instead of the statutory agent for 
> their stinking little corporation.  They outnumbered me and 
> had a little more money to buy into a system of dodging the 
> responsibility of keeping their agreement.  Equal justice 
> works to give every citizen (no favored classes) recourse,
> as direct as possible, with due process.  


>> Going along with an apparent underdog
>> theme in some of your posts, there
>> certainly is a gradient of power and
>> attendant abuses in society, but I
>> don't see that as a result of systems 
>> thinking--seems (to me) more like the
>> result of dimly aware slightly evolved
>> primates who really could use some
>> systems thinking.
> So how do such beings get to be president?  Is there no 
> direct way to prevent that?

Correct.  Power works, by definition.  So if you want to change things,
you need to develop a powerful alternative, preferably one that is seen
as moral by working well over an increasing scope of people and


> There's a difference between a natural hierarchy based on 
> strength or intelligence (ability) and a contrived and 
> manipulated systematic hierarchy based on intimidation just 
> as there is a difference between natural consequences for 
> actions and contrived added punishments.  If you run a red 
> light you have a collision (naturally) or you may get a 
> citation (contrived).  

I could argue that getting the traffic citation follows just as
naturally as all the other consequences, but it's becoming clear that
you're responding from a sense of being a victim, so the key points here
for you are (1) understand and accept that things got the way there are
because they worked effectively within some past and possibly current
context, and (2) see yourself as a force, promoting your values into the
future (to the extent that they work (within the scope of reality (to
the extent that you understand it.)))

You already have everything you could possibly need to begin this


>>> As an individual I'm interested in avoiding the "tyranny of the 
>>> majority" and in contributing to an expanding "cooperative 
>>> environment."


> On the one hand I'm individuating from society and on the 
> other I'm merging.  


>>> I've been struggling to conceive a society of autonomous
>>> spheres comprised of individuals in unanimous accord.
>>> wherein each individual can fully identify with the larger
>>> sphere-system and where the variety of spheres could interact
>>> sans coercion.


> I'm a musician and I enjoy performing and producing recordings.

Seems to me you're asking questions that will lead you in the direction
of growth. It seems also that you will want to integrate the concept of
taking reasonable risks in order to create a world that is ever closer
to your ideal.

Best wishes,

- Jef

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