[extropy-chat] Hating Those Who Would Destroy You

Lee Corbin lcorbin at rawbw.com
Wed Dec 13 17:53:25 UTC 2006

Stuart also wrote

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Avantguardian" <avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com>
To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Bully Magnets

>> And you think it's acceptable that people
>> in "those parts of town" can get away with
>> beating up,  mugging and robbing people?
> No. But neither do I think it's acceptable that our
> military is torturing people*, putting civilians at
> risk (even if they are not OUR civilians), and doing
> idiotic things like shooting Iraqi shepherds' flocks
> for sport. Nor is it acceptable that the government is
> spying, detaining, and possibly torturing, American
> citizens*  without a trial.

Well, it's pretty obvious what you want to talk about!

> You talk about how wrong it is to stand idly by while
> bullies victimize others? George W. Bush is the
> biggest bully of them all....

You always drift off into Bush-hate.  Why do you
hate so much?    :-)

>> It's not fear.  It's my utter contempt and hatred
>> of bullies that does it.  Yes, I was a "bully
>> magnet",
>> as you put it, in school, and I suppose I still am.
>> Yes, I was afraid of them.  But I always stood my
>> ground, too, and I did get beat up a couple of
>> times.
> A wise little green man who never existed once said,
> "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads
> to suffering." If you give in to hating, you will have
> slipped even further to the "dark side" and the
> bullies will not have been diminished one iota
>> ... 
>> How in God's name can you blame the victims
>> the way you're doing?  I despair at the moral
>> cowardice of not standing up to bullies and
>> hoodlums.
> Victimizer-victim is an evolved social dynamic, just
> like any other. As such it is reciprocal and not
> unilateral. Victimizers could not exist in a world
> that did not have people that allowed themselves
> to be victims. Why allow yourself to be a victim? 

I'm not a victim!  Not any more. I can afford to
live where it's easy and safe, and everyone is
courteous. Everywhere I happen to go (which
isn't far, I admit) everything is perfectly normal
and civilized. I don't need to be "street-wise".

I'm telling you, that in certain schools it simply
cannot be helped:  there will always be those
who are weaker, and you're simply being 
unreasonable to blame them for not taking
karate lessons or what-have-you. Rather than
kids adjusting to the presence of crime and
bullies, why don't we all try to strongly rid
ourselves of those elements which make
neighborhoods unsafe? (And please, that's
not a question about Amerian foreign policy
or about Bush's "war crimes".)

>> But I absolutely HATE those who in any way
>> defend the hoodlums and bullies because their
>> victims were "bully magnets" or were "asking
>> for it".
> There you go hating again. Do you still not see the
> innate weakness and ultimate futility of hate?

No.  As I read history, it looks rather effective.
Carthago delenda est, and many examples
like it. Without hate of what the Japanese did, the
Americans could not have brought the Pacific war
to an end. 

You consider yourself *perfectly* safe in your
neighborhood?  Has it been taken over by gangs?
Would you mind if it was, seeing as you are so
good at not being a victim of any sort?  If you
don't want your neighborhood taken over by
gangs, please explain why.

> I am urging you to refuse to be a victim. NOT
> by graduating to victimizer, mind you. But
> instead by leaving the cycle of fear and violence
> completely.  

That does sound a lot like dying!  But I know you
can't be suggesting that.  If in your jaunts through
various kinds of neighborhoods in LA, Stuart, 
what will do you if someone tries to mug you?
(Assume it's late at night and they can't see how
the way that you carry yourself and the way that
you dress precludes your being singled out.)
Will you just tell them that you refuse to be a 

What about when the police decide that you 
look like the sort they'd like to rough up? Just
again, tell them they've got the wrong guy and
that you're not a victim?

That's silly.

> When your decisions (or indecision) put you in harms
> way, you cannot shift the culpability to others.
> Ultimate responsibility for the self lies with the
> self. Maybe in the eyes of the law you can pin blame
> on others, but not in the eyes of natural selection or
> karma.

Yes, you *can* shift the responsibility to others!
It should NOT be the fault of a little old lady that
she gets mugged. We *should* be able to walk
our parks at night.  Don't you agree that something
terribly important has been lost because we cannot?

>> These animals---and that is the mildest term I
>> have for them---these animals who thrive on
>> crime and a repudiation of everything that is
>> good or noble in our civilization   all deserve
>> to be rounded up and executed.
> Shall we tatoo numbers on them and throw them into
> concetration camps first? Animals?

Now you're talking!  Yes, gang members should
be rounded up and put into concentration camps.
It could---believe it or not---make the parks
safe to walk again at night.  It could prevent 
more criminals and hoodlums from growing
up if the role models for such behavior are
removed.  It could be that people would---
instead of fearing to go about their honest
business---become afraid of harming, baiting,
mugging, or raping others.  Right now, most
young criminals are fully cognizant that if they're
caught, they get to move on to "higher education"
in the prisons, bulk up, and become true 
professionals.  This has transpired because we
do not hate criminals sufficiently.

> Hitler called the jews rats to convince people
> it was politically correct to do precisely what
> you advocate.

Jesus Christ.  You compare the millions of
perfectly innocent, harmless, and economically
productive European Jews to our inner-city
hoodlums, gangsters, and murderers?  I can
hardly believe what I am reading!

> Hate is evil, no matter who you hate or why. Love is
> more powerful anyways. I could not have hurt you so
> much with "bully-magnet" remark had I not loved you
> enough to know it to be true.

You're breaking my heart!    :-)    I do thank you 
for the love you have for me and mine.

But you're wrong about hate.  It was right for the
Jews to hate Hitler and the Nazis, right for Americans
to hate Japs in the war, and right for any people to
hate those who would destroy them.  If your emotions
are not going to truly be on your side when the chips
are down, then you and people like you will become
extinct.  And that's the basic EP reason we hate.


*all those people should simply announce that
they're not victims, and that it should stop. All
those people just bring it on themselves, is
that what you're saying?

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