[extropy-chat] Conquering the world with a POV wiki (was re: Time Magazine's Person of the Year)

Brent Allsop brent.allsop at comcast.net
Sat Dec 30 02:24:05 UTC 2006


Others are homing in on understanding why people are so attracted to 
computer games but none of these were predictive of acceptance of some new 
technology such as a POV wiki.

Hmmm I guess I have a different POV.  Very controversial issues really get
people riled up and motivated don't they?  That is precisely why you see so
many people spending so much futile time in "edit wars" on Wikipedia isn't

Take, as one small example the recent wired magazine issue about the new
atheism.  They "got more responses to that story than to any other piece in
memory".  So they put them all online - as if that would help.  (See

And everyone did this while knowing that when they sent their e-mail, it
would likely only be one of a bazillion unlikely to make any kind of impact.
But they still went to extreme amounts of effort to be one of the bazillion.
I bet there are also a lot of people that whish they could know all of the
good stuff contained and summarized in all those bazillion responses in some
kind of usable way too.  On the above wired page they attempt a brief
summary of some of the more popular good things that were said.  But still,
without an extreme effort, you'll never get the "gist" of them all in any
kind of comprehensive or quantitatively measurable way.

But imagine if, instead, they had used the Canonizer to manage all this POV
so that the many "camps" could be consolidated and summarized in an
encyclopedic form.  I believe this Canonizer system will make it very easy
for all of the "similar" POV responses to work together to make, instead of
a bazillion slightly different POV statements to be forgoten, the best
summaries of all of them combined.  And this much better set of results for
each camp will result from far less total work than the extreme amount of
work that went into the bazillion individual letters.  And the ability for
people to "canonize" in a way they want to, will result is something very
powerful for those who want to find the set of the best "camps" for them
personally.  Not to mention the ability to quantitatively measure the amount
of support for each "camp" and all of the sub camps, the history, and so on.

Surely time will tell how well some of this will work or which POV is right.
That is the great part of reality.  Eventually everyone will know who is
truly right and who is wrong.

There are (perhaps) related reputation 
systems out there, the church of the virus has one, cryonet has one.  The 
later case was installed as a defense when obnoxious people became too much 
of a problem.

I’m not following this.  Could you provide some more details about these
"reputation systems"?  What and where are they?

I don't think a positive spontaneous reputation system has 
taken hold yet.  (Unless you count credit reporting.)  I don't know 

Absolutely.  Credit reporting is wonderful right!?  It makes the world
heaven for people that have earned good reputations, and hell for people who
have screwed up - all justly so.  And all this is done naturally, without a
hideous legal system in a futile way trying to "legislate" against every
little infraction behavior.

Imagine 4 years from now, Scamming Joe is waiting for a big job interview
for a key position at a popular up and coming company.  As he sits in the
waiting room for his interview turn, he sees one of his competitors walking
in and sitting down across the way for her interview turn after his.  He
takes out his cell phone and while pretending to use it he snaps her
picture.  He runs this through a facial recognition system and looks up her
"canonized satisfaction score" and the size of here "delegated support tree"
and so on at canonizer.com.

Wow, he thinks in a demoralized way.  They are off the charts compared to
his which have recently crashed due to some recent scamming of others he has
done.  He quickly realized he has no chance against this kind of competition
with his current scores.  So he just gets up and walks out - vowing to fix
things.  Instead of wasting his time on the interview he starts contacting
the most deservedly reputable and influential people he has recently scammed
and gets started on making a full restitution knowing this will enable him
to "win them over" to his positive camps and thereby significantly improving
his "canonized satisfaction score" and "delegated support" and so on.

All this is simply a matter of great POV information organized in a very
easy and useful way right?  How much better and free will the world be when
we all have easy access to this kind of information about everyone?  The
world will be heaven for the worthy and hell for the wicked right - without
the futile attempt of governments to "legislate" such morality?  All thanks
to "little brother" right?

I think there are many huge industries where existing primitive companies
are now dominating that are just ripe for the extreme disrupting with
something like this.  This kind of personal "score" information industry is
another example of yet another industry ready to be dominated by someone in
a very profitable way.  As you say, this entire industry is still virgin
territory and nobody except for the credit report industry has yet moved in
and started to claim the obvious extreme amount of vast profits just waiting
to be easily claimed by the first.

Perhaps the perceived cost/benefit is too high.

Yes.  The perceived cost/benefit is one of the barriers that I see
preventing companies from moving into this huge virgin profitable territory.
This is simply because all people can imagine is a bazillion individual
"reviews" and all the extreme amount of effort it takes to write and digest
(someone laboriously filtering out all the porn, spam...) all those
bazillions of different reviews into some useful and canonized "camps" now
seems impossible.  But when you have a hierarchical POV "camp" system like
the Canonizer, where if people's POV is already there, all they have to do
is join that camp (and maybe help out a little) rather than writing yet
another completely new review, this can all become very simple, easy,
natural and very efficient with the right tools and rules right?

And another thing I see that has made it prohibitive is that what one person
wants from all the data is very different than another person.  All you get
from any review system (yet another huge industry ripe for the disrupting)
today is simply one POV, if you can even get that from the myriad reviews
that must themselves all be reviewed by some reviewer.  And the ability to
select your own personal "Canonizer" breaks through these remaining barriers
in a very easy and natural way doesn't it?

It is a long term goal, but I hope the Canonizer will eventually have a kind
of canonized satisfaction score for every other transaction in life outside
of credit transactions.  And not just for individuals, but for companies,
products, advertisements and everything.  Of course before the Canonizer can
move into and start the extreme disrupting of these kinds of large,
profitable, and influential industries it will take much more of an
established company, capital, and development right?

>Is it written anywhere that people can’t get paid a lot of money and earn 
>lots of delegated influence and reputation… saving the world?  This is 
>another small part of the “supper powerful turbo rocket sled” I was 
>talking about above.

My personal experience is that "saving the world" is more likely to lead to 
bankruptcy than getting "paid a lot of money."  YMMV

That is the beauty of all this.  The wiki industry is just the first
industry ripe for the disruption.  A simple POV Wiki is just the starting
very small seed in all this.  Other than a few grand for some provisional
patents (to keep the big still primitive hierarchical boys out until we get
going), some spare time (I haven't quit my day job YET), a bunch of free
software and services to "mash up" in the right way and an offer like 1
share of Canonizer LLC for one hour of development to at least get a little
help from others until the first revenue starts coming in there is no way
anything can go bankrupt is there?  From there we simply pay (very
generously) as we go and then exponentially explosively move into and
disrupt all these ripe, primitive, secretive, hierarchically dominated,
institutions one at a time (to start) at ever increasing rates.  I say screw
the greedy venture capitalists and dot bomb overextending loans.  We don't
need them.  These days we can do it and own it all can't we!

For me, this will be more of a religion than a corporation; or maybe a kind
of anti religion?  Instead of being a wimpy primitive "non profit" it is
very much for profit willing to pay its way for any governmental services it
receives.  Instead of it telling you what you are to want, believe, and hope
for, you tell it.  Instead of polarizing and ripping apart people with
differing POV, it unifies them.  Instead of you paying it 10% of your
income, it pays you 10% of its revenue. Instead of a simple, secretive,
primitive hierarchy, everything flowing from the top down, it is a
sophisticated, open, grass roots network with no leaders and everything
moving up. Instead of it asking you to "abandon" your current supposedly
"false" and or devilish religion, it asks you to bring all the good stuff in
your old religion and culture along with you and bring some of what you find
in the Canonizer back to it and so on.  Instead of promoting twisted false
faith and fear mongering it opens people's eyes to true faith and hope and
what is really occurring and what is truly possible.  Instead of everyone
seeking after the goal of the single "leader" at the top (while destroying
or demonizing all the other competing leaders), everyone seeks first to know
and then to get all that "the least of Yee" truly wants. In stead of people,
after they have died, being welcomed into some isolated neither world by
their already dead relatives; they will be resurrected and welcomed into a
real heaven by their children and friends (I agree, you are still alive
Sasha!).  Old religion tries to justify evil while there is already some
powerful God hiding from us, new religion instead hopes to be able to
shortly overcome all such evil and vows to never hide from it ever once such
is finally 0vercome.  Instead of some Big brother or God punishing people
for the supposed bad they have done, little brother will be seeking after
true justice by attempting to pay ALL of their relatives back for the good
and glory that their lives resulted in - each ancestor making the world a
little better place for millions of generations.  After all, they are not
the fallen "sinners" but instead THE true creators - always faithfully
seeking after that impossible star regardless of how little they had to work
with.  In stead of faithless beliefs in isolation or places like lower
kingdoms, hell and devils it will simply faithfully never give up until
everyone is saved and all is achieved perfectly for everyone right?

At least, that is what I want the Canonizer to be.  But of course what you
want it to be is just as important and what I hope it can also become.

If we are going to be heading into the singularity as Kurzweil claims within
the next 50 years, there has to be some very ever more dramatic things like
this happening very soon right?  Each "next big thing" will make all
previous "next big things" before it primitive and trivial in comparison,
speed and glory right?

I really like the popular primitive religious phrase:

	"Oh Yee of little faith".

Best wishes,


Thank you so much for this very helpful information!  You have no idea how 
much it helps!  I believe the more diverse the POV like this, the more it
will drive us all forward.  And I have run into others with your POV but it
all seems very vague and not fully developed.  Would it be possible to help
your POV camp make some progress on this by expressing some of this POV in a
more concise and encyclopedic way in the Canonizer under the
/organizations/canonizer/ namespace?


Brent Allsop

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