[extropy-chat] Superintelligence

[Mikhail John]

>From: Samantha Atkins <sjatkins at mac.com>
>Reply-To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Superintelligence
>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:00:52 -0800
>
>
>On Feb 14, 2006, at 8:04 PM, Mikhail John wrote:
> > Getting away from that, I now turn to the fact that there are a
> > number of
> > reasons to exterminate humanity that even humans can comprehend. We
> > are
> > destroying our own environment, we destroy our own bodies, we kill
> > ourselves, we kill each other, we believe in invisible friends and
> > go to war
> > for those beliefs. We are profoundly flawed creatures. I have a few
> > mildly
> > sociopathic friends who believe that we should destroy humanity
> > before we
> > take the rest of the world with us. A valid argument this time.
> > Humanity in
> > it's current form serves nothing but itself, as does that badly.
> >
>
>The "rest of the world" has some and presumably more intrinsic value
>than humanity because..?
>These "flawed creatures" happen to be the most intelligent and most
>capable of transcending their flaws of any on the planet.  I would
>say that makes us a bit more interesting and valuable than the non-
>human parts of the world.

The logic is this: They believe humanity to be doomed no matter what. They 
think it's just a matter of time before the nukes come or the Small Sarsbola 
Pox escapes from the lab and destroys all life, beginning with humanity. 
They think that we should all commit voluntary suicide, leaving the planet 
open for the monkeys or rats or something to take over. For them, it's the 
difference between our race being a suicide bomber and overdosing on sleep 
pills.

I don't agree with them. I think that something is better than nothing, but 
I would prefer that the something be me.

I didn't say that humanity was worthless, I said that humanity is flawed. 
You can sit on a cracked chair and that's better than sitting on the dirt 
floor, but that crack in the leg might shatter at any time. We've been 
sitting on that chair with that crack for a long time, but that doesn't mean 
that there is no reason to repair the crack.

Philisophical arguments aside, a superintelligent being might decide that 
the paranoid monkeys are going to try and nuke it.  Maybe the stupid little 
fleshlings are going to try and build an anti-matter bomb, then trip over it 
and set it off. If they are stupid enough to destroy their own atmosphere, 
then they are stupid enough for anything. Rather than risk it, the AI might 
just decide to destroy the humans before that happens.

>
> > These, however, are flaws of society, not biology. The culture of
> > the most
> > powerful portion of the world believe that the world was made for
> > humans by
> > God and will last forever, no matter what we do to it.
>
>What the heck is a "culture" and where does it say that whatever it
>is believes any such thing?

The culture is what people think, believe, and do. The Human OS. Some people 
use OpenBuddha, others KoranWord, but America, the most influential and 
powerful nation is the word, runs on PraiseJesus ME, the PraiseJesus 
mercantile edition.

Google says that Acts 25 of the old testament of the bible includes the line 
"He sustains the universe in its existence, giving life and breath to all 
things, and hence, as the source whence they all proceed, must Himself lack 
nothing nor stand in need of any human service;"

That and a few other bits contribute to an attitude of Western civilization. 
We think that if you pick a fruit, the fruit will grow back. If you catch a 
fish, more fish are born. If you put smoke in the air, wind will blow it 
away. Because those things are true, than it must be true that you can plant 
five thousand trees in a square mile, artificially promote their growth to 
leech all possible nutrients from the soil, and then pick 200,000 fruits 
there this year, the year after that, and every year unto infinity without 
parching the soil. You can get great big boats with great big nets and catch 
every fish  it is possible to catch, excepting, of course, the dolphins, and 
do that this year, next year, and every year until infinity without running 
out of fish. You can make great big factories, great big powerplants, and 
lots and lots of tiny little cars zooming around, all pumping out smoke, do 
that this year, next year, and every year until infinity and the air will 
STILL smell like roses, sunshine, and newborn kittins.

A planet is a very, very big thing. It takes a very, very long time to use 
any of it up. There are lots of people nowdays. We are managing to use it 
up. Global warming, anyone? People know that it's happening now, but they 
still don't BELIEVE. Hell, half of americans believe in the rapture. They 
think that even if they DO use it all up, it doesn't matter because Jesus 
and his angels are gonna come down and bring them up to heaven!

> > Flaws of society are correctable. It's like a puppy, if you don't
> > rub it's
> > nose in the mess it won't stop shitting on the carpet. If the flaws
> > were
> > biological they could be still corrected. Even with our flaws, we
> > are still
> > hardy, creative, and useful little critters. An AI could create
> > android
> > tools, and probably will, but humans will take a long time to become
> > entirely useless. You can just twiddle their genetics a bit to make
> > them fit
> > the environment, drop them on a planet, either give them crops or
> > let them
> > to eat rocks, maybe photosynthesis, wander off for a while, then
> > presto!
> > Self-sufficient workforce. If you made androids they would require a
> > controller and a factory. Any self-sufficient controller that can
> > control an
> > useful number of workers could become a competitor if you left it
> > alone long
> > enough.
>
>What, I can't make autonomous, self-reproducing androids that are
>less bothersome than human beings?   Not much of an AI am I?

Eh, why bother? It'd probably be kind of hard. Besides, I'm human and I'm an 
optimist. I don't want to go extinct, so I'm hoping that some AI will either 
find me useful or think I'm a good pet. Or that I get to be an AI myself. 
Anything works.

> >
> > Science tells us that we are descended from uni-celled bacteria.
> > Logic tells
> > us that we are descended from the baddest, meanest, studliest, and
> > luckiest
> > uni-celled bacteria around. A few billions of years later, and each
> > and
> > every one of our ancestors was the baddest, meanest, studliest, and
> > luckiest
> > of their kind. Barring anything unwise with bacteria or nukes,
> > humans are
> > the baddest, meanest, and luckiest creatures around and will
> > continue to
> > hold that position for the foreseeable future. The act of creating
> > something
> > greater than ourselves will not change that. Any super-intelligence
> > worth
> > it's salt will recognize that and use it.
> >
>
>This does not follow.   We are the most successful critter is some
>respects (certainly not in sheer mass, longevity, etc.) that natural
>evolution came up with.   That does not mean that a super-
>intelligence couldn't come up with something MUCH better with
>relatively little effort.  We ourselves have no problem seeing how
>various parts of our being could be improved.

So? Improve me, please. I could do without pimples, and while you're at it 
could you make my penis bigger? Ten inches is enough. I'm ready and willing 
to change, just say the word and wave the god-wand. If you don't want a 
human at all, that's fine. I'll wait for an AI who does.

> > If it doesn't, it's not like we can stop it.
> >
> > In conclusion, an AI would be such a powerful economic and military
> > tool
> > that they will be created no matter what. Once we begin to create
> > them, they
> > will get cheaper and easier to make. If the science of crime has
> > taught us
> > anything, it's that you can't stop everyone all of the time. If the
> > science
> > of war has taught us anything, it's that even the smartest of
> > people are
> > pretty dump and leave plenty of openings. Eventually, AI will no
> > longer be
> > in the hands of the smartest of people. Accidents will happen. We
> > cannot
> > stop a super-intelligent AI from being created. It is inevitable.
> > Sit back
> > and enjoy the ride.
> >
>
>It is not inevitable simply because the continued existence of a
>sufficiently technologically advanced humanity is not inevitable.  It
>is not time to "sit back".

Eh, sit back, work for it... Somebody is going to work for it. I don't mind 
working for it. I probably will work for it. I could NOT work for it, and I 
don't think it'd matter much. There are many people much, much smarter and 
more driven than me, and some of them are trying to do this. I believe it 
will happen. I might be wrong.

Sit back and enjoy the ride is a phrase that I enjoy.

Fun talking to you. I await a reply with baited breath.