[extropy-chat] Cults/drugs

[Keith Henson]

At 06:53 PM 2/16/2006 +0000, you wrote:


>On 2/16/06, Keith Henson <<mailto:hkhenson at rogers.com>hkhenson at rogers.com> 
>wrote:
>>At 04:17 PM 2/16/2006 +0000, Dirk wrote:
>>
>>snip
>>
>> >The difference being that pretty much all Elron's victims signed up for it.
>>
>>That becomes a *very* tricky question as we understand more about the human
>>mind/brain.
>>
>>Were you ever given a flower in an airport by one of the Moonie cult members?
>
>No, but I have visited their HQ in London

That probably shows my age as much as anything.  I don't remember when they 
were driven out of airports, 20 years ago?

>>They were playing on a human psychological trait of reciprocation that is
>>almost hardwired into us.
>
>I know - just like those charities that send pens, cards etc in 
>expectation of reciprocity.
>I make a point of throwing them away - not using them at all.
>
>>Scientology and other cults mostly use "attention-reward," love-bombing and
>>scientology's "training routines."  Rewarding drugs hit the same brain areas.
>
>So does every successful meme I would guess.

Hmm.  Maybe memes of the cult class.  "Meme" as elements of culture is a 
really big group.

>>There is also the fraud aspects.  Scientology promises virtually
>>everything, power over matter, energy, space and time--verbally.  The
>>papers you sign after high pressure sales pitches take it all away and then
>>some.
>>
>><http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeta/scn/scans/Introspection-Release.html>http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeta/scn/scans/Introspection-Release.html 
>>
>>
>>Scientology is a vicious organization run by a vicious little prick.  None
>>the less, I can't really hate him any more than I can hate someone for
>>being infected with HIV.
>>
>>Worse than HIV, most people with HIV understand it's bad.  People in cults
>>are blind to their situation.  The mechanisms were discussed recently here
>>in the fMRI work of Drew Westen.
>
>So they have to be saved from themselves?
>I don't like where that goes...

If they were *just*  cutting their balls off I would never have noticed 
them--at least no more than Heaven's Gate.  I got into this battle when 
they tried to destroy part of the net--Kobrin's famous rmgroup.  Later they 
ran the longest denial of service attack in history.

My conviction and becoming a fugitive was because they didn't like me 
drawing attention to two women they murdered in 2000.  That was a direct 
and successful attack on classical free speech--picketing.  I had a history 
of free speech activism before this (the AABBS case).

>>Cults, scientology only being an example, are the memetic equivalent of
>>segregation distorters genes which can drive mouse populations to local
>>extinction.  In fact, the Shaker cult did that to its group of humans.
>
>And something similar is happening to the  indigenous European population.
>So?

You missed the point.  Cults are examples of "cheater" or parasitic 
memes.  But if you are concerned about the future of the indigenous 
European population, you definitely need to understand EP.  (And having 
some kids would help too.  :-)  )

>>People on this list really should have a better model of what humans
>>are.  Depressing, but it's important at least till you are a few light
>>years out.
>
>I am pursuaded, but you are brainwashed etc
>The fact that two people can come to conflicting conclusions given the 
>same data means that there is likely no objective position.

If two people come to conflicting conclusions given the same data, you 
*can* tell with fMRI if one of them is using the reasoning parts or the 
emotional parts of their brains.

If a lot of people are using the reasoning parts of their brains on some 
subject that may come to _define_ the objective position.  If two people 
are arguing about religion, I would be surprised to find either one of them 
had the reasoning parts engaged.  :-)

Keith