[extropy-chat] Not necessary smarter, just faster?

[Eugen Leitl]

On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 06:21:51PM -0400, Anne-Marie Taylor wrote:
> Anna wrote:

Anna, your quoting style is highly unusual. Maybe you should read
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
If you're using Outlook or Outlook Express there are tools
to help you with that, e.g. http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/

>   Even if a super computer mind could remember every last detail, equation, word or 
> scenerio at a million times the speed of our own, how would it be able to come up 
>   with Einstein theories?

You're looking at the hardware. Instead, you should be looking
at a person implemented in the hardware. If you would upload Einstein,
he would not be able remember every laste detail, equation, etc.
He would be just as limited as Einstein, albeit running a million times
faster. 

E.g. mathematicians (some notable exceptions excluded) are only highly productive
in an early part of their career. Einstein also had his annum mirabilis.
I think a million of such miracle years would be truly impressive to behold.

And, of course, unlike dogs, we can actually build systems which think better
than we do, or optimize the processes making us tick, so there would be no such
built-in limits as a dog on his virtual porch.
 
>   Eugen Leitl replied:
>   >Just the same way Einstein did. 
>    
>   >>I still don't understand? Does this mean Einstein could remember every last detail, equation,
>    >>word or scenerio at a million times the speed of our own and that's why he could come up
>   >>with his theories?
>   >>Or am I missing something?

Einstein was a highly exceptional person. Some people are dramatically more productive
than others. With molecular-scale diffs you can figure out where six-sigma outliers differ
from us, or where chimps differ from us, for that matter. That should give you a pointer
to where we should go.
    
>   Eugen Leitl wrote: 
>   What do you think being creative is? 
>    
>   >>I think being creative is having the ability or power to create.

Ok.
    
>   Is a computer beating a grandmaster in chess being creative? 
>    
>   >>No, I don't think so.

I would think that within its domains a modern chess system is
being highly creative. The differences between human play and machine
play are increasingly going away.
    
>   How can you tell it isn't? 
>    
>   >>I thought the game of chess was stratigec?

Strategy, as in building and executing a plan?

>   >>I thought there was only so many moves you can make based on the games rules and 
>   >>stratigec plan?

Of course the canvass is limited. But the number of all possible moves
is large enough to be untreatable by brute-force.

>   >>Wouldn't a computer beating a grandmaster only mean that the programmer had
>   >>as much knowledge as the grandmaster?

Absolutely not. I could easily write a program which would beat me in chess.
You don't have to be a chess grandmaster to build a system which blows away
anyone on two legs.
    
>   >>That's why I don't understand.  
>   >>If all I could do is retain memories and not be able to associate them (like Einstein). 
>   >> "not necessary smarter, just faster" 
>   >>doesn't make any sense to me.

It doesn't make any sense to me, either. It's probably because you're
erecting a straw man. Something which only memorizes but can't access
is a video recorder.
    
>   >>I'm just not understanding but thanks for the replies.
>     
>   Is the tissue in your brain being creative right now? Glia, pieces of dendritic tree? 
>   Ion channels? Protein domains? Water vibration modes? Quarks? 
>    
>   >>I'm an average proll, this is way over my head.

I was trying to illustrate that intelligence and creativity is an emergent (a high-level
property emerging from interaction of low-level parts) of a particular physical system
between our ears. If you pull it apart/look at low-level processes you don't see anything
particularly magical. The individual cells in an information-processing tissue are not doing
something particularly interesting. The farther down you look, the less special it gets.

Whether a smart being is built from animal cells, transistors or spin valves, it
doesn't matter as they're organized by the same principles at a higher level.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
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