[extropy-chat] The Immortal Class: Admissions Criteria

Tue May 16 11:12:01 UTC 2006

There must be no admission rules for immortality
Immortality must be for all, independently of wealth,
origin, race or religion.
Any sort of limitation could only generate a class
revolution, the non immortals will target and kill the
immortaals, there is no way that humanity will accept
rules or limitations to immortality
Giorgio
--- Samantha Atkins <sjatkins at mac.com> ha scritto: 

> 
> On May 15, 2006, at 9:26 PM, Metavalent Stigmergy
> wrote:
> 
> > Hope this is an appropriate branching of this
> particular thread.
> >
> > On 5/15/06, spike <spike66 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> What bothered me far more was Bill McKibben's
> talk.  Since I  
> >> haven't the
> >> exact quote, I will need to approximate or
> paraphrase.  McKibben  
> >> thought we
> >> need to cut the libertarian notions and
> acknowledge the propriety of
> >> subjugating our wildest transhuman ambitions to
> the greater human  
> >> community.
> >> Did I get that about right, summiters?
> >
> > I don't think that's too far off the mark. 
> Although I do have to
> > admit, it's a pretty messy proposition to begin
> thinking about
> > guidelines for the Admission Board to the Immortal
> Class of 2029.
> 
> What is "greater" about the mass common opinion that
> there is no  
> choice but to begin to fall about time we get much
> sense and to die a  
> few decades (if we are lucky) after that?   The
> world is not the  
> world we souped-up chimps evolved to handle.  It
> moves faster and is  
> more complex.  There is no turning back.  We take
> control of our own  
> subsequent development in a variety of ways or we
> perish.
> 
> Immortal?  Why is increased longevity thought of as
> immortality?   
> What is wrong with wishing to live as long and in as
> good health as  
> possible given our science and technology?   How can
> it be right to  
> ration life itself?
> 
> >
> > What are the criteria for admittance into the
> emergent class of
> > immortals?  Just money?  There are lots of rich
> idiots out there and I
> > don't know if conventional market economics --
> which have worked GREAT
> > for the most recent centuries of advancing and
> distributing Good Stuff
> > in general -- are the right way to let the market
> decide in this case.
> 
> This is a ridiculous objection.  The likely
> technology will only be  
> expensive in its very early and experimental stage. 
> if it is largely  
> based in medical nanotech then it is likely the
> technology will be  
> easy to mass produce cheaply.   Even if it was and
> remained expensive  
> then why is it more objectionable that a relatively
> rich person  
> bought better health and longer life than if they
> bought anything  
> else which the masses of humanity cannot afford?  
> What business  
> would it be of yours if a person who could afford
> the means paid a  
> person who could provide the means to have a longer
> and healthier  
> life?  By what right would you interfere?   Isn't
> the right to life  
> and to pursue a more full life as basic as it gets?
> 
> > I'm right with Hal in terms of finding ways to
> make a profit off of
> > observed tendencies and I think that *some* kind
> of market should
> > decide, but I wonder if the same market that moves
> everything from eye
> > bolts to iPods is the right kind of market for the
> Immortality
> > Commodity.
> >
> 
> What else do you have in mind that would not
> introduce physical force  
> into the situation?
> 
> > Perhaps college and university admissions are an
> interesting model.
> > Most are needs-blind, not based (solely) on
> economics; rather based
> > upon the aptitudes, interests, and general
> direction of the applicants
> > life.  Not every psychology will adaptive to
> greatly extended life
> > spans.
> 
> How on earth would we be able to model this before
> people actually  
> did experience longer lives?
> 
> >
> > Returning to the rich idiot scenario, perhaps
> idiots an important part
> > of a diverse, posthuman or extropian society.  In
> any case, who
> > defines "idiot"?
> >
> 
> Being rich and staying rich is not as easy as you
> may presume.
> 
> > What if I'm a relatively harmless, fairly
> well-read, and happy hermit?
> >  Do I lose points for lack of face-to-face
> interaction?  Who do I have
> > to impress and what norms do I have to comply
> with?  Is it enough to
> > contribute the occassional provocative thought,
> demonstrate authentic
> > respect and interest in the provocative thoughts
> of others, and
> > periodically prompt interesting, original, or
> compelling discussion?
> > Or do I need to exhibit the advanced bureaucratic
> organizational
> > skills of a PhD, and nothing less?
> 
> It is enough to be able to afford the means that
> someone else is able  
> to provide.  Nothing less preserves the rights of
> the people  
> concerned without a tyrannical interference by the
> politicized  
> opinions of others.
> 
> >
> > What are the Guidelines for Admission and who is
> on the draft commitee
> > to create them?  Whoever it is, it's probably time
> to get rockin' ...
> > that is, if work is not already well underway.
> >
> 
> There is no such committee and while there is breath
> in me I will  
> work that there never will be.
> 
> - samantha
> 
> 
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